New CNC Saw by GMM

[Dan R.]

I think they are talking about the Denver. I believe that GMM has conquered that issue. As the saw can enter from either direction with the blade spinning correctly. Much like any CNC saw were the head can re orient itself. I think the GMM can Miter all four sides. We will find out shortly.

Re the motor hitting the stone, that is why the head spins 180 and cuts from the other direction, at least that is my understanding of such.

[clhilde]

So what your saying is the head turns 180 only tilts one direction.
I think Im on the right track.I assume the table does not turn and this is the issue with not bring able to cut all 4 sides

[Dustin Adams]

I was simply comparing the look of the saw to my Denver, pretty much dead on the same layout, mono block and limited travel. Denver has upgraded to what they call now the Skema Hi Tech, which is a beast, head rotates 360 degrees and tilts 90 for other things. Also has a small lathe upgrade as well. X axis has been greatly increased to deal with the mitre issues of its earlier version, which is the one I have.

That said all I wanted to make sure, since mitres are becoming more and more of a demand, is that the head on this GMM was 360 degree rotation and that the Y axis travel was upwards of 90". The reasoning for the 360 degree rotation is so you can get all 4 sides of a mitre without repositioning your piece. The reason for the large Y axis is because when the motor is tilted to mitre, which is only 1 way and that is motor up in the air, the saw can only go so far towards the front of the table and the back of the table. So you need the larger travel to be able to mitre a piece over 60" wide and cut the pieces book match as well.
This is because you will have to turn the head 180 degrees to make up your bookmatch mitre. And when you turn the head 180 degrees you need to bring the bridge and saw head towards the front of the saw in order to cut that piece. My saw cannot do that, I hope this one can, because it is a pain in the arse.

I as could Dustin, could write a lengthy list as to the problems with a small monoblock saw. But the newest editions are far superior and all the issues with the Devers have been relegated in the newer versions. No doubt GMM has thought about this as well. Just ask the right questions thats all.

[Nick]

Dustin is really explaining this well. The brio rotates 370 degrees so it miteres all sides of an island and lam. HOWEVER he brings up a super interesting question in regards to the Y travel. SO, if the Y travel is 80", what is max for a 45* 14" blade to be above the table. I deal with this with my saw and often have to move pieces for this and other reasons. So guessing from looking at my saw with a 14" blade, I could easily see where a saw with 80" of Y travel can only miter 60"....Plus the head tucks under, so I am going off of the bridge travel. if it is actual blade travel then that would offset even more. Interesting thread for sure.

[dustinbraudway]

Yep. Y axis is a major problem on that saw. As I recall you can rotate the head 90 or 180 with it inclined. That would be at a 45 for some of you. Sensor blocks it. Big Dan it will do just as you said about coming out of a cut and reorient itself to compensate for blade change.

Still a good saw for people that want to run full cnc and mass produce countertops. But if the GMM can rotate 370 and miter with out sensor block. That is one the money there

[Eric R]

It sounds like Nick knows more about my saw than me Seriously. Probably a few others as well. Not for long though

I'll find out more about the capabilities and the working parameters in about 8x days and I'll take lots of pics so you guys can see. I'll have a few sweet miter programs ready to go. My bigger concern than working parameters was how to cut pieces in an order so they wouldn't move. Like miters on small pieces first before cutting them off the larger piece and etc.

Guy is spot on about the camera system. Not sure why the Brio doesn't have it, but it wasn't a concern for me as I'd really like to incorporate Slabsmith, or similar.

I have a request. Taf sent me an email, because he had some inquiries and wondered if I could share what the discussion here involved (He is aware that a discussion is going on). I'd like to copy and paste this thread so they know what's important to us, but if anyone would rather their name, or post, not be on it please pm me and I'll cut that part out. Or, if the moderators would rather I not do this, let me know.

[Nick]

Eric, you are my guinea pig on this saw. You better learn a lot more about it!!

[Eric R]

Nick, this saw doesn't have a servo motor to tilt the blade, so I thought that was a deal breaker for you.

I've asked him about putting one on, but no response yet.

[Qualey Granite]

Eric
With no servos does it crank to a hard stop like my Yukon?

IMO, the servos are a big deal. This is why we don't like using the Sawjet for miters; crap builds up on the stop and it never zeroes back out to 90 the same way every time. We got a price to add them and if we see an increased demand will look into it more. It really is a combination of software and mechanics to get it right and I think CMS and Breton have it covered in the Sawjet arena.

[Nick]

I believe the grey wires going into the "hinge" are for the servo motor? Didnt John in England that is getting one see one miter etc.? I was actually looking at a fully loaded intra, which is quite a bit more saw, and consequently quite a bit more price? If I get a GMM that is likely the saw i would get. Problem is that I need to have a good year to feel comfortable enough to get that or the Breton , so the brio is tempting wild card on even an average year.....not what I want, but if it is 85% for the cost difference I can't say it isn't tempting. The tilt is only 45*, but funny I assumed it was automatic . Maybe UK John knows?

[Todd B]

If the 45' tilt is manual. Will it plunge cut?

[Dan R.]

Wouldn't the Y axis clear the stone no matter the angle of inclination of the blade? Isn't a 14" blade the same size at any angle? The blade would spin freely before entering the material on a miter, just as it would on a perpendicular 90 cut, or a 22.5 or a 30 degree miter cut, no?

If a slab is 75" tall shouldn't the balde be able to engage it from straight on, instead a of a plunge cut?

Why does the Y (or X) have to be longer than is required for a straight 90 cut?

If a saw blade can rotate 180, does it not have the ability to cut moving in either direction? If your saw runs north/south, why can't the blade cut a miter from each direction? Same for the east/west?

[Dustin Adams]

Dan the blade is offset from the center axis of the rotating head. So when you rotate at a 45 the head is even more off axis.

Cutting a book match on my saw I have to be 10 or so inches from the end of the Y axis in order to bookmatch the mitre.

I will take some photos tonight and post them up to show the way it is all wacked out.

[Dustin Adams]

Saw head at zero and all the way to the front of the Y axis travel, right on the stops



Saw head in the same position, but tilted to 45 degrees, again all the way on the Y axis stops



Same position again but head rotated to 180 degrees to show a bookmatch cut.



Showing the Y axis stops in comparison to the table. You can see the table is almost even with the end stops. In an ideal situation as you can see by the photos the Y axis would extend another foot past where is does now. That way you could bookmatch your mitres and get a much larger yield when doing so.

This is what I hope this saw doesn't do and I am sure doesn't. But I just wanted to bring the whole mono block design flaws to the attention to those who might be buying one.

[Todd B]

Dustin my brio is the same but maybe not as bad I think on a 45 it's like 150mm into the bed

Anyone know if it plunge cuts on a 45 ??

[dustinbraudway]

Dustin, good idea with the pics. It is hard to explain typing and talking about it. This is a major problem IMHO with this type of saw. The GMM looks to be of the same design, but I am sure they overcame this problem. If I were buying this saw to miter more than run in CNC and cut decks, then I would have saved and bought a bigger saw.

Looking forward to seeing the Brio in action.

[clhilde]

Would a rotating table not solve the problem?

[Dan R.]

Thanks Dustin. It is about how the blade/motor pivots.

[GuyboR]

Would a rotating table not solve the problem?

Possibly. But rotating tables are VERY slow compared to rotating saw head.

[clhilde]

I thought some of the early cnc saws had a tuning table instead of a turning head controlled through the program

[Dan Dauchess]

I thought some of the early cnc saws had a tuning table instead of a turning head controlled through the program

They did, but

Would a rotating table not solve the problem?

Possibly. But rotating tables are VERY slow compared to rotating saw head.

The Breton at Kent Potters shop had a rotating table. This also needed a significant foundation to install.

[Eric R]

I looked closely at buying a used CMS Brembana Antea for $31k, but something just didn't sit right withme about the spinning table. I know CMS makes nice stuff, but it was hard for me to picture something so large, heavy and complex working carefree 20 years from now whereas I can see the GMM saw doing just that.

I would have bought a Denver at that price if I could have found one even though CMS makes much nicer gear than them.

Thanks for the pics Dustin. I don't know how mine compares, but I will soon.

[Nick]

Rotating tables are not nearly as awesome as rotating heads for speed and I believe accuracy purposes. Rotating tables are pretty much already outdated on smaller saws.

Gmm makes a lot of saws and a lot of options, so you can't expect all the answers to everything in an entry saw, but you can presumably expect a CNC solution that is solid and has limitations on both sawing AND the amount of money leaving your bank account. Pound for pound it is one of the better values around hands down.


Taf, now that this is in your room, feel free to jump in

[Ken Lago]

Mario's video showed the rotating table spinning while the saw moved at the same time, to me that was pretty cool and not slow at all. Hey but what do I know? I'm still in awe every time my fabcenter picks up a tool by it self

[Dan R.]

I think Taf is out of the country until next week.