CNC Saw vs Sawjet

[fischertile]

Newbie here to SFA so please be kind

We're a larger fabrication facility looking to add either a CNC Saw or a Sawjet to the mix. After already doing lots of homework I've pretty much already come to my own opinion of which direction we need to go but didn't want to settle on it entirely until it gets thrown out to the wolves here.

Equipment wise we currently have:

2-Marmo HTO b1 bridge saws,
1-Commandulli Synthesis edge machine
1-Marmo LCT 522 Edge machine
1-Intermac Master 43 CNC
1-Marmo LCD 711 splash machine
We also use the LT 2d-3d laser system with plotter

We mainly use 2cm materials with various built up edge details. With that said we do a lot of high end production homes with all types of kitchen configurations and layouts. Also we do quite a bit of shower surrounds too and laser those as well. In addition to all that we also do a fair amount of Commercial work too, mainly consisting of mitered edges and lots of mitered drops etc.

All that said we know the Sawjet has much higher running costs but are more curious of all the unknowns a Sawjet may have that you just don't know until it's to late.

Right now were just doing lots of homework and kicking tires so any advice or opinion is much appreciated.

John S
Fischer Tile & Marble
Sacramento, Ca.
916-452-1426

[jbergman]

This is the kind of question that can easily become a "which is better a Mercedes Benz or BMW" type of discussion. That being said GMM spent a lot of time and money looking into producing a saw jet, and in the end abandoned the project. Technically it was entirely doable, but it was and still is our belief that a CNC saw offers substantially higher production than a saw jet with the added benefit of carving capabilities and core drilling. Naturally there are some items better suited to water jet work, but that comes at a price - higher operating costs and more intensive maintenance. I like to feel that the experience of our customers have justified our decision.

John Bergman
Bergman-Blair Machine Corp./GMM USA. www.bergmanblair.com
Prescott, AZ. 86305
928-443-1100
516-381-6774. cell

[graniteman]

I was in the same dilemma about a year ago, after debating both I decided with an omag cnc saw. I think it matters on your process.

How much hand fab?
Are you planning on adding another router?
Do you have power available for sawjet?

Both will get the job done. Sawjet will have it closer to a finished product when it comes off the table. Tighter nesting. 90 degree corners.

Cnc saw, cheaper to buy and operate. Easier loading and unloading. Can nest very tight with proper tools. Typically more capable for miters and full 5 axis.

This subject has been discussed before.

Search "sawjet???"

Feel free to cal me if you need any help.
Brian 810-449-1901

[Dan R.]

Everyone can convey their experiences, thoughts and dreams to you on this subject, ad nausea.

The bottom line is what does your business need? Are the shaped tops better produced (more efficiently) on the router or do you need more cutting capacity for rectangles to feed through the line machines.

If you want to feed more line machine material, then a cnc saw is the way to go.
If you want to relieve some router back up by less fingerbitting, then a combo may be the solution for your shop. If it is the later, then possibly a another router may help even more. Even a manual saw can cut quite a few slabs a day, when managed properly.

[fischertile]

First off to all, THANKS and keep it coming!

To answer some of the above,

Our production seems to be pretty diversified. If I were to put a number on it I would say as a normal basis we will process around 10 to 12 slabs a day on a normal day.

The type of work we do solely depends on what type of job we have running through at the time, meaning commercial or residential but if I were to divide it up it would probably look something like, (hope this helps)

50% Line Machined
10% CNC
20% Mitering
30% Hand Fab


I know all things considered (mainly money) the CNC Saw seems the obvious choice. Where my dilemma comes in is when we do panel type projects and other things which only a sawjet can do..... In our solid surface division we shoot panels with the laser and have the CNC cut out all the plumbing, outlets etc., this system works very well for us and I think it would serve wisely to incorporate this system into our stone division. Imagine the time you can save having a full height splash or shower panel job 95% cut and scribed prior to even showing up onsite. I know we can use our current CNC for a lot of this stuff however it just seems to not be the right tool for the job and that a sawjet would be the better ticket item for the job.

Truthfully the above example would only be maybe 15% of our production but seems like items such as vanities with oval sinks and what not would just better served on a Sawjet.

The next addition to the above is that we are big on mitering as well, I've heard that a Sawjet is not as good as a CNC saw for this but why not, it has a saw on it?

Unless I'm missing something (which I probably am and is why I am posting this), it just seems the added expense of the Sawjet could be outweighed by the convenience of throwing a slab up and walking away, returning to a near complete cut out and ready to lam and polish product.

I know I'm not considering all things here including running costs so PLEASE enlighten me...

John S
Fischer Tile & Marble
Sacramento, Ca.
916-452-1426

[DavidL]

John - Many CNC saws allow for the use of of a core bit along with some form of a router (incremental) bit. So you could still do your plumbing cutouts.

Keep in mind with the waterjet portion you do get some blowout on the backside during the piercing process and with some materials you can experience blow outs on the face if your programmer isn't careful or knowledgeable of material.

[GlobalEquipment]

Many good points in this thread. However, if you have looked further in to the latest in CNC sawing technology, you will find that the CNC saw can pretty much do anything that the sawjet can do. A CNC saw equipped with vacuum lifters (for avoiding over cuts nesting), ISO 40 Spindle (For Core Bits and Finger bits for smaller radius work, inside corners, etc.), automatic touch probes for automatic detection of disc diameter and Slab thickness (very useful and helpful with mitre cutting) and an overhead camera system with CAD/CAM software (slab layout, vein matching and nesting) can hold its own against any sawjet out there and at half the price. Just some more food for thought.

[PoseidonMachinery]

I have to say that I agree with Mr. Bergman and Mr. Dunholter. Poseidon also has evaluated making a sawjet type model. We have the designs and it is totally doable, but from a practical standpoint, a CNC saw on average is about half the price and it does virtually most of what you will need if you are doing countertops. Our experience stems from having renovated almost all sawjets, waterjets, and cnc saws of other major brands during the "dark ages" (2009-2012)

Here are some other pros and cons:

PROS for waterjet:
-you can cut tear drop shapes and paisley type patterns that a blade or finger bit could not do. It's great for nice hotel lobby inlays that are large and have a lot of curve detail with sharp points. It's also great if you plan on making custom made mosaics and other inlay type medallions out of your remnants.
-you will save on some material(not a lot when compared to a cnc with vacuums that create distance between the pieces)
-it's pretty cool to see a waterjet cut

CONS for waterjet:
-most intensifier pumps are 50HP and the combined amps that a sawjet will take up in your panel is about double if not more than double that of a CNC bridge saw.
-you have to cut really slowly when you do a sink cut-out or outer radii in order to get a smooth cut all the way through the bottom. If you go to fast, you will have inconsistency on the smoothness of cut, thus having to run a Z wheel around the sink hole anyway on the CNC router
-Table must be pumped out since garnet, granite/stone debris, and water accumulate in it, thus making it very complicated to recyle water. Very cumbersome, maintenance-wise in comparison to a cnc saw table which tilts and is simple to maintain.
-Core drill punch outs(faucets) with a cnc saw(5 axis-ISO 40 spindle as Mr. Dunholter pointed out) are much faster than cutting them with a waterjet

Good Luck!

[Jon_sambor]

Have you gone to sfaers shops? I think there are 3 close to you that have different brands. So what was your original thought before posting? Saw or sawjet?