Customer upset about seam through sink.

[BlueFlower]

Hello,

I recently did a job that required a seam through the sink. Our customer is very upset that we put it there and wants to contact other fabricators to find out if that is a normal place to put one. Apparently, anywhere but the sink would have been acceptable, even through the peninsula.

It was done in blue flower, and although we were able to make the grain run all the same direction, there was no way to match veins. Any responses would be appreciated for both our customer and us.

Thank you.

[Jonathan]

Sometimes kitchen layouts dictate where the seam will be. If done right, we have no issues with putting a seam in the middle of the sink or over a dishwasher.

But more importantly, we communicate these things before we do them. This way there is no surprise after the fact.

[Caleb]

If your sign off does not state that seams are 100% at fabricators discretion I would start there!

We've done 100's of seams through sinks with no issue.. if the material has a lot of movement to it running the seam in the sink may be the most inconspicuous place...

[Darryl Miller]

We've done 100's of seams through sinks with no issue.. if the material has a lot of movement to it running the seam in the sink may be the most inconspicuous place...

Same here, especially if you cannot get the veins to match perfectly at the seam. But there again, we always go over seam location with our customers before fabrication. Education on the front end means less headaches on the back end.

Do you have any pictures you can post?

[Dave.Scott]

We do everything to not seam through sinks unless they are self rimming, because every time someone goes to the sink they look right at the seam. With a self rimming sink or cook top cutout we will ledger it to save material.

That said, sometimes it is the only option, and previous posters have all stated great reasons and procedures to follow when you do seam through a sink.

I would not want a seam through a sink in my home!

It is the weakest point in the top, tough to rod the opening, and tough to get my old Gorilla clamps on it to pull a good seam, and I'd look at it all the time-- it would bug me forever.

[Alex DiPietro]

You can get seams at the sink just as tight as any other seam. If it's dressed... IMO the only downfall is on the fabricators side as it takes more to make. both by hand and on a cnc. And ridding is for the birds!

We also go over seams with customers. Some people are dead set against i though and we always respect their wishes.

[Dan R.]

Seam in the sink is a non issue. Done properly, no big deal.
Rodding

[Stone Dude]

Clients being upset about this never made sense to me. You have a 3" seam instead of a 24" or larger seam. We seam at the sink whenever possible. It should take about 15 minutes to grind it flat and polish it as well, if that's something that is feasible for you. Just to make it that much better for them, but the fact that it's at the sink is a non-issue.

[cliveyt]

I concur , small seam at front and rear of sink is far more desire able than a 24" seam elsewhere ( imo)

[BellaTerra]

While it should be discussed before hand the sink can be by far the best possible location for a seam. Through the peninsula instead? Really?

[Ken Lago]

My customers usually leave these decisions up to me, they understand my experience outweigh hearsay. A few think they know better than me and that's fine too all I have to do is modify the contract, obviously this is all done before stone is cut.

[Andy Ross]

I get the logic of shorter seams=less visible but I personally would never put a sink seam in my own house. I hate them. Ive done it once in 6yeats of business and it couldn't be avoided. I don't think its wrong, but there are people out there like me who won't accept it. It really needs to be discussed before hand with client. If that's where it needs to go, a quick explanation would put them at ease prior to fabrication.

[Todd Luster]

Never my first choice, but when necessary not a problem.
Sounds like you could have had a problem regardless of where you put the seam if either you didn't discuss it, or have a document saying it was up to you.

Our quote the customer signs for acceptance states material layout including seam placement and all cutouts are at the sole discretion of TMS unless otherwise requested prior to acceptance of quotation.

[topshop]

Any time a customer has an issue like this it is completely on you for not educating them on what to expect in the final product. Communication is key.

[Kowboy]

Blueflower:

Please direct your customer's attention to page 16, Drawing #4, of the MIA's Residential Countertop standards. It clearly shows seams through a sink to be an acceptable practice by the 70-year-old trade association of the stone industry.

Personally, I don't like the stainless washer detail; I'd rather have the seam fail than explode if a cabinet moves.

Rodding is old-school and nearly obsolete, particularly in this instance. A sink installed with a Hercules Universal Sink Harness or a Sink Strap has just been turned into a 10" deep truss; much stronger than any rod and turning one of the weakest areas of a top into one of the strongest.

http://www.marble-institute.com/default ... tertop.pdf

[graffster]

In our contract we state we place seams at our discretion for the most yield of the product. With that being said if they want to purchase more materials to accommodate there seam placement have at it.

[luke getz]

sink seams have been the preferred place to seam for us - we done at least a thousand of them over the years. if I had a cnc so I could do euro seams without alot of hand work, I might tend to go more toward those.

there are issues with sink seams, but there are also issues with full seams - either one will work if done by a competent fabricator

[Chris Mills]

I get the logic of shorter seams=less visible but I personally would never put a sink seam in my own house. I hate them. Ive done it once in 6yeats of business and it couldn't be avoided. I don't think its wrong, but there are people out there like me who won't accept it. It really needs to be discussed before hand with client. If that's where it needs to go, a quick explanation would put them at ease prior to fabrication.

[topshop]

It doesn't matter what your contract says. Any and all contracts are subject to litigation = useless. I have never had or needed a contract other than a well explained estimate, my word (education), and a handshake. In the 10 years I was in business I lost 1 potential customer to not having a contract and was never sued or had my contractors license complained about the state. Loose the contract unless you are dealing with builders, then lawyer up before even starting business with those scumbags.

[BlueFlower]

Thank you for all of your responses.

Long story short, I believe these people are con artist's. We did their cabinets as well. When we tor out their previous cabinets, we had to move their stove, (not our responsibility). We accidentally broke the glass on the door. Keep in mind this stove is about 30-40 years old valued at $150-200 tops.

We made a verbal agreement with the husband to pay for half of a new stove or pay them $400. The wife later says we half to buy them a $900 stove and we are lucky because she wanted a $1500 one.

The seam is their excuse to not have to pay the $11000 bill for the flooring, rest of cabinets as well as granite bill.

Somehow our secretary missed having them sign our contract.

However, we talked to our lawyer and he has informed us that there is nothing we could have done anyway because there is a department of L and I disclosure agreement that has to be signed along with our contract for their to be valid recourse.

We are in the process of talking to other lawyers but it's not looking like we will be able to collect outside of small claims court.

[Darryl Miller]

Ouch, that's an expensive lesson. Sorry for your situation.

[Todd Luster]

Sorry to hear stories like this.
Hopefully selection of your customers goes better in the future?

[ageless]

That's tough to hear. Hopefully it gets resolved with you getting the majority of your money.

[Omni Cubed Larry]

Ugh. This makes me sick to my stomach. Sorry to hear you are going through this.

[Ken Lago]

It sucks but there is procedures you can set up so it doesn't happen again in the future.