(Need help) Rodding problem

[SbergeronMG]

Hi,

Some poeple probably know me around here, i'm really searching for some good knowledge.
We've been using fiberglass rod for the past 8 years and never came up with that problem.

It's usually a problem related to metal rodding but I got 6 case of Rod that broke up to the surface in the past year.
Take in account that we do 60 jobs a week.
On the 6 case one was june 2014, one august 2014, one september 2014, one october 2014 and finally two decembre 2014. They all supposally crack around 6-8 month after the install

Has for the glue we normally use A/B strongedge express from Tenax and if we are in the hurry we use integra.

First I thought it was the depth of the rodding, but they're preciselly ajust to leave 18mm of material, so that can't be the case. I've double check programming mistake and everything, I just can't find it.

Glue expansion?
Humidity?
CLient related?

I'm asking if poeple had similar problem and what was the problem?
Thanks

[luke getz]

we have also been using fiberglass rods and either strongedge express or touchstone express2 epoxy and I have not seen or heard of any problems

[Todd Luster]

We use the Carbon Fiber/fiberglass Rod from Weha and StrongEdge and have had no problems.
What kind of breaking issue are you having?
Rodding alone doesn't make up for inadequate support under the sink rail, nor is that the intent in our case.
I would question handling and install.
Some pictures would help possibly.

[Darryl Miller]

Pictures would help or a more detailed explanation of how the tops broke. Are the breaks running left to right above the rod or are the breaks from front edge to inside edge of sink cutouts?

[SbergeronMG]

it crack following the rod
did not broke the counter just open up like what we would call a fissure

but definitelly create by the rod

i will try to get some picture tomorrow

it crack parallele to the front edge following the rod

[coolhandchris]

Was there any consistency to the breaks in terms of Material?

I could see an especially crappy lot of Uba doing it, since it already has the cracks present.

[SbergeronMG]

Not really

3 luna pearl/majestic white
1 cosmos brown
1 santa cecilia
1 super white

I could agree that majority of those color we wouldn't have to put rod
but that is just our standard for kitchen

I just found that weird that it happen 6-8 month after install (to me once it is install, shim and brace properly nothing should happen after that)
and on some randomly span of a month or two in between fabrication
otherwise it would've happen all during the same week or to a lot more poeple

I'm going to see one take and tare next week we are replacing the kitchen i'll see if there is anything wrong on site.

[graniteman]

Since we switched to carbon fiber rodding we haven't had any problems except cutting too deep. What are you using for the slots? Sounds like a cnc of some sort, maybe they calibrated the tool improperly?

Maybe they mixed the epoxy too hot, I know with polyester you can make it smoke and that would cause fissures/cracks??

[Andy Ross]

I've had two crack and I am convinced it was from drying the slots with a torch. Gotta use air or leave them overnight. I'm glad we quit rodding a long time ago.

[SbergeronMG]

rodding depth and drying is not the case for those

only use air to dry
and depth all made on our breton cnc precisely ajust to leave 18mm/ 0.70"

the thing is they didn't crack in the shop or on install but 6-8 month after installation

[BC Granite and Marble]

Is there any evidence of rust in the cracks?

[Juststone 1]

Are you using one of the 2 part glues you apply with the gun? Way back I used did not have any problems for years then I started getting pieces crackling threw I did an experiment in the shop glue only no rod on a small scrap piece came in the next morning piece is cracked. I called the glue manufacturer they said the batch could of been different and there could of been more expansion never used those glues again have been using polyester for 10 years now no issues.

[gano1dogs]

We have also had 4 kitchen tops come up cracked in the last month that were installed around a year ago. We have been using steel flat bar for years with no issues until now. When the tops were brought back to the shop there was quite a bit of rust around the bars, I think that if the slot is not totally dry or the flat bar is not cleaned properly before you submerge it in glue its just a matter of time before the steel starts to rust and cause too much pressure.

We are considering going with fiberglass now, but after a few strength tests in the shop it seems like steel is much better. Has anyone experienced any negatives as far as integrity switching from steel to fiberglass.

[SbergeronMG]

The thing is we use fiberglass rod, it's been 8 years since we switch over with no problem till those 6 kitchens
that I just can't seem to figure out why they broke (Along the rodding strip)

[luke getz]

We have also had 4 kitchen tops come up cracked in the last month that were installed around a year ago. We have been using steel flat bar for years with no issues until now. When the tops were brought back to the shop there was quite a bit of rust around the bars, I think that if the slot is not totally dry or the flat bar is not cleaned properly before you submerge it in glue its just a matter of time before the steel starts to rust and cause too much pressure.

We are considering going with fiberglass now, but after a few strength tests in the shop it seems like steel is much better. Has anyone experienced any negatives as far as integrity switching from steel to fiberglass.

Daniel - if you are going to rod ( we do) then I would definitely switch from the steel to the fiberglass.

[graniteman]

We have also had 4 kitchen tops come up cracked in the last month that were installed around a year ago. We have been using steel flat bar for years with no issues until now. When the tops were brought back to the shop there was quite a bit of rust around the bars, I think that if the slot is not totally dry or the flat bar is not cleaned properly before you submerge it in glue its just a matter of time before the steel starts to rust and cause too much pressure.

We are considering going with fiberglass now, but after a few strength tests in the shop it seems like steel is much better. Has anyone experienced any negatives as far as integrity switching from steel to fiberglass.

Daniel - if you are going to rod ( we do) then I would definitely switch from the steel to the fiberglass.

I would definitely recommend getting away from steel rods. We have been using carbon fiber rods without any issues, we tried fiberglass and had a few tops break.

[BrentP]

We use fiberglass rod and occasionally stainless all thread on very fragile pieces. I'm not sure what's causing your problem. I've noted that drying the slot with a torch can cause fissures but you said you use air. All I can think of is mixing your adhesive too hot.

[Carmine Pantano]

Sébastien,

We too switched to fiberglass & carbon fiber rodding about 8 to 10 years ago. This is very strange that all of a sudden you are having this issue and all are from jobs in the same time period give or take. My thoughts are that it MUST be the CNC. Maybe in that time frame someone programmed wrong, maybe you had a different blade, a new employee running the CNC...something. Think of something, even the smallest of things, like the table was higher for some reason. Because the fiberglass will not rust to cause this. Very strange, but think of the smallest thing. Just because it is programmed right today, doesn't mean it was right then.

[bsorcs]

It is not clear to me where your rods are located in the installed pieces, but I am guessing that they are in positions where the stone is relatively narrow, like at the front or rear edge of a sink. For what it is worth, might the breaks be in locations under light fixtures? I have seen numerous cracks, particularly at sink fronts, that were the result of the homeowner standing on the counter to change a bulb. Pretty much anything narrow, even if supported, will strain if enough stress is applied.

[Andy Ross]

Steel is stronger than carbon fiber anf fiberglass. But if thats the cause, you have to adjust procedure. A lot of shops dont rod at all and use omni clamps for support. I would be one of those shops. We rarely have a tops break though it does happen occasionally. Something to consider.

[scott m]

What is the width of your rodding slot????

[Todd Luster]

My money says the saw depth was almost full depth. Let us know.

[Caleb]

For what it is worth, might the breaks be in locations under light fixtures? I have seen numerous cracks, particularly at sink fronts, that were the result of the homeowner standing on the counter to change a bulb. Pretty much anything narrow, even if supported, will strain if enough stress is applied.

X2

[Caleb]

We are considering going with fiberglass now, but after a few strength tests in the shop it seems like steel is much better. Has anyone experienced any negatives as far as integrity switching from steel to fiberglass.

It's likely that the sealant on the front of the sink failed and/or water from the sink defused through the stone and rusted the rod.
We rod 1 out of 10 jobs - usually only if there is a lot of weight on both sides of the sink opening. We use fiberglass with very few issues.

[SbergeronMG]

From what I've gather we remove our first counters

It's the glue, no rust (fiberglass rod always)
Depth is 19.5mm away from surface
Material seems fines except that the client put some weird glue right beside the sink to Anchor their dishwasher

then I though maybe the heat from the dishwasher was diffusing right in the rodding be it doesn't look like it's this

A/B stongedge express from tenax was use on that piece i'll post picture