Need help anchoring (Systems) granite to a cinder block wall

[Baoser]

Need help on a few options on how to anchor granite to a cinder block wall. I know we can use a special thin set for outdoor use with a silicone seam to aid in expansion and contractions. This project however, requires some sort of anchoring system. I'm using Galaxy Black or Absolute Black in 3 CM. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance for your time.

[Stone Dude]

Omni Cubed has an anchoring machine: http://www.easystonecare.com/Omni-Cubed ... anchor.htm

There are several ways to do it. Is there an architect involved, and specs or plans, or are you guys responsible for coming up with the anchoring system?

[Omni Cubed Larry]

......Is there an architect involved, and specs or plans, or are you guys responsible for coming up with the anchoring system?

Good questions.

Is the wall already built? Is it filled with concrete? If it is not filled, is it open at the top or capped? Earthquake zone? Who are you? Size of slabs?
Most anchoring methods will be furred out away from the wall compared to using thin set.
I hope other people chime in who have done this before.

[Mark Meriaux]

Finished height of the stone cladding?

There are numerous commercial systems available, but as Larry pointed out they require a considerable amount of stand-off from the structure.
Keil
Hohmann & Barnard
Red Leaf
Raimondi Rai-Fix
Halfen
Are just some of the commercially available systems.

Many different anchors for many different cladding scenarios. Really depends on the design.

[Chemical Concepts]

One way you could go about doing this is with our Keep-Nut press-in, self-anchoring, threaded insert. These inserts are rated up to 562 lbs per fastener. They can be used for undermount sinks, facades, furniture, and in your case, a wall panel.

Installation is simple. It involves drilling a shallow, cylindrical hole into the surface of the granite, and driving the Keep-Nut into it with a rubber mallet. Once they are installed, a threaded post would be screwed into each, and mounted onto the cinder block wall with a railing system or anchoring epoxy.

Our toll free number: 1(800)220-1966

Specs:

SKU: CCH-KEEPNUT-2S-1/4
Min. Thickness: 8.5mm (11/32")
Thread Size:1/4"-20
Thread Length: 5.5 mm (7/32")
Bit Size: 11.8 mm (15/32")
Hole Depth: 6.5 mm (1/4")
Crown Number: 2
Avg. Press-in Force: 90 lbs.
Avg. Pull-out Strength: 562 lbs.

Some videos to give you a better idea of how these work:

Keep-Nut Installation w/ Right Angle Grinder -
https://youtu.be/-Ww-w73KBCY

Keep-Nut Installation w/ CNC & Testing Numbers -
https://youtu.be/mHbWHG-vUd0

Keep-Nut Installation when Wall Cladding -
https://youtu.be/7hqRC_fj3d0

For more information, check out our online store! Chemical Concepts Keep-Nut - Click here

[Baoser]

The concrete block wall will be filled. The engineer is letting me dictate how to facade the wall. Wall will be clad on all sides. Still waiting on plans. Builder tells me they keep changing dimensions. I have looked at both Keil and Stone Clip. Leaning towards Keil. I will definitely take a look at all suggestions given to me. Thanks for all the help guys.

[Baoser]

......Is there an architect involved, and specs or plans, or are you guys responsible for coming up with the anchoring system?

Good questions.

Is the wall already built? Is it filled with concrete? If it is not filled, is it open at the top or capped? Earthquake zone? Who are you? Size of slabs?
Most anchoring methods will be furred out away from the wall compared to using thin set.
I hope other people chime in who have done this before.
[

There is an architect but I have not been given plans yet. They are being changed as the monument was curved and is now getting a straighter look to allow for a larger slab. We are responsible to coming up with the anchoring system. The engineer is allowing my suggestions and input. Wall isn't built yet. It will be filled with concrete. Plan on using full 6' x 9' slabs sheets. I plan on facading all sides. I've told the builder that this is my first time to facade but he still wants me to do the work as we have a long business relationship and he trusts my workmanship. Just trying to gather as much information as possible. Thanks for the help guys.

[Dan R.]

How tall is the project? You may be able to use wire.

[Baoser]

Not sure yet. They are thinking of using a full 6' x 9' slab.

[Dan R.]

What material?
What thicknesses?

Those panels are nice to look at, when they are that big, but can create long term issues concerning stone fatigue and sagging. Smaller pieces may be well advised.

DO NOT TAKE ON THE RESPONSIBILITY OF SPECIFYING THE ANCHORING SYSTEM. LEAVE IT TO THE ARCHITECT AND/OR ENGINEER.

I have seen a building that needs to be re clad after 25 years because the 4" thick panels were too large and sagged (bowed) under their own weight and were in danger of falling out of their anchoring system.

BEWARE AND BE WELL ADVISED!!!

[Hard Rock Support]

Dan's comments are to be taken very seriously.

Before I started working on the tool side of the business I worked for a company in NYC , ( for almost 14 years),that did not do kitchens. But only cared for the 40 plus buildings they owned and maintained in Brooklyn. And all of their work was " cubic" on exterior and/or interior commercial lobbies.

Some of the basics :

1) You start with the weight of the stone. Years ago BSI had a chart of weight per cubic of various materials. Once you know the length, width and height of the panel you could come up with a per panel weight. You how know much each panel weighs.

2) That gives the Arch and his Engineering team the information they need to figure how much weight the structure is being asked to "carry".

3) That in turn determines how they want the CMU, structural steel or concrete designed and installed by the GC.

4) After that, there was engineers at the anchoring companies or internal to the Architect that would them tell you if it was a "load bearing anchor" or "wind load" anchor. And even what type of metal , ( what grade of stainless or galvanized, what thickness,etc..) and any other critical details that needed to be used in the anchoring process.

Keep in mind that you as the Stone Installer need to have very specific direction from a Lic Arch on what he wants done
in the anchoring process. Otherwise liability issues may come into play that the Stone Installer really should not be a part of.

The list given earlier given is a group of qualified anchoring companies. At times we also used Heckmann Building Products in some applications.

Hope this has been of some benefit.

Mark
Hard Rock Tool