HELP! Shop might replace me & I need to stop it

[Andy Ross]

I fully disclosed I didn't read your spreadsheet. But I will let you know what we do
If it takes you a lot longer...you're doing it wrong.
Template a 50-60 sqft kitchen - 30 min.
Programming - 60 min. Includes slab layout and filling out shop sheets and directions.
Cutting- 30 min, manual saw
Router - 3 hours
Install - 2-3 hours

Typically we shave some time off each step but these are what I consider reasonable times. We are typically within 1/8" on overhang tolerance. I only measure the ends of the run...where the laser shot points. The middle doesn't matter.

[Caleb]

Cutting- 30 min, manual saw

[

30 minutes to cut a slab on a manual saw?

[Angel]

c'mon Caleb its Andy, of course it only takes 30 min to cut a 60 sq ft job on a MANUAL saw....if its an Island

[Angel]

I looked at one job that took over 2 hours to template and 2 hours to make a drawing??
I hope this job was over 500 sq ft and radius everywhere! Was she HOT?

In all seriousness these times should be much shorter. You should also include how many sq ft these jobs are and the complexity of them. I would need more info to help you.

[Dan R.]

c'mon Caleb its Andy, of course it only takes 30 min to cut a 60 sq ft job on a MANUAL saw....if its an Island
[

Remember, Andy was former Rail Saw Posse Poobah.

[Andy Ross]

We are cutting rectangles aren't we? Everything is oversized and router fixes it.

[the_dionysian_1]

I looked at one job that took over 2 hours to template and 2 hours to make a drawing??
I hope this job was over 500 sq ft and radius everywhere! Was she HOT?

In all seriousness these times should be much shorter. You should also include how many sq ft these jobs are and the complexity of them. I would need more info to help you.
[

The first one that was on the list that said over 2 hrs for template was about 102 sq ft. That job had more tops that were supposed to be done but when I got there the customer's fireplace was completely blocked by cabinet boxes, table saw, tools, benches, etc. I couldn't even see it. So once the homeowner showed up I asked if it was ready to be templated & she had the contractor & co remove all the crap. Then she showed me what it was supposed to look like. It wasn't ready. So that was a whole discussion & waste of time. Then I had to dig out her cooktop which was in the garage in a box under other boxes & appliances. So there was more than just, walk in & everything was ready to go. I often go to jobsites where people are still working on stuff & I have to ask if they'd mind moving things so I can measure.

Another one on that list that took a while was a job that I had to determine whether or not we could tear out. Pics below. It had two garages & a rolltop desk that went down on top of countertops. It ended up being that we subcontracted a carpenter to do it for us. I also had to measure for tile backsplash (also a common occurrence for me). Plus, it had diagonal corners everywhere & a built-in-range that was installed. Pain to measure as I couldn't get it out from the countertop so it was all a judgement call. It worked out fine in the end. Install went smooth.

[STEVE NY]

Do you have any "after" pictures ? I don't like when they have corners like this one has at the dishwasher, hard to make 'em look right.

[Dave.Scott]

Another one on that list that took a while was a job that I had to determine whether or not we could tear out. Pics below. It had two garages & a rolltop desk that went down on top of countertops. It ended up being that we subcontracted a carpenter to do it for us. I also had to measure for tile backsplash (also a common occurrence for me). Plus, it had diagonal corners everywhere & a built-in-range that was installed. Pain to measure as I couldn't get it out from the countertop so it was all a judgement call. It worked out fine in the end. Install went smooth.

Tear out or not, my guys would have this kitchen templated (with a proliner, inclusing backsplash measure) in less than 1 hour.

[Alex DiPietro]

Yes, that's easy enough to measure with a proliner. Real pain in the ass with a laser.

[Justzack]

I dont see any big issies with templating that job should be right around an hour and that includes hand sketch.
you do take a 2 ft level with you right? you could butt it up against the stove and shoot the level offet the line whatever distance and roll on

[luke getz]

that looks like about an hour with a laser as well.

[the_dionysian_1]

I dont see any big issies with templating that job should be right around an hour and that includes hand sketch.
you do take a 2 ft level with you right? you could butt it up against the stove and shoot the level offet the line whatever distance and roll on
[

I have not been provided with a level. At my previous employer I had a laser level with which I would check how close to level the client's cabinets were, if possible.

I'm not sure what you mean by butting the level up against the stove. I honestly never go off of old cutouts as they're usually jacked up due to being cut w/a jigsaw by someone with a very shaky hand. So if the stove isn't sitting in there square with the finished edge, why use the stove to determine where the new cutout should be? All it would take is one picky customer to say "hey that's crooked" & you'd have to do it all over again because you copied their crappy previous cutout.

[the_dionysian_1]

Tear out or not, my guys would have this kitchen templated (with a proliner, inclusing backsplash measure) in less than 1 hour.
[

I'm hearing a lot about Proliners lately. It's sounding like they're far more accurate than a laser, yes?

[Ken Lago]

Tear out or not, my guys would have this kitchen templated (with a proliner, inclusing backsplash measure) in less than 1 hour.
[

I'm hearing a lot about Proliners lately. It's sounding like they're far more accurate than a laser, yes?
[

No, what make you think that?

[STEVE NY]

I dont see any big issies with templating that job should be right around an hour and that includes hand sketch.
you do take a 2 ft level with you right? you could butt it up against the stove and shoot the level offet the line whatever distance and roll on
[

I have not been provided with a level. At my previous employer I had a laser level with which I would check how close to level the client's cabinets were, if possible.

I'm not sure what you mean by butting the level up against the stove. I honestly never go off of old cutouts as they're usually jacked up due to being cut w/a jigsaw by someone with a very shaky hand. So if the stove isn't sitting in there square with the finished edge, why use the stove to determine where the new cutout should be? All it would take is one picky customer to say "hey that's crooked" & you'd have to do it all over again because you copied their crappy previous cutout.
[

I think he (JustZack) is using the level as a backstop/target to shoot the laser against, not to actually "level" anything.

The way I do it is just shoot/reference the front 2 corners of the stove cutout and then draw a line at a 90 degree angle from the front edge, that way the stove is in square.

[Alex DiPietro]

Tear out or not, my guys would have this kitchen templated (with a proliner, inclusing backsplash measure) in less than 1 hour.
[

I'm hearing a lot about Proliners lately. It's sounding like they're far more accurate than a laser, yes?
[

Yes! Proliners are more accurate than a laser. Especially when it comes to steep angles.

[BC Granite and Marble]

With LT2D3D, this would definately not be more than an hour from hello to goodbye.

[northernrocktops]

X2 AJ
LT2D3D less then an hour with full height splash

[the_dionysian_1]

X2 AJ
LT2D3D less then an hour with full height splash
[

If you're doing full height splash & cutting it prior to installing the deck, what happens if it turns out that your installers have to shim a bunch? Just have them go out in the yard & re-cut all the full height splash? I suppose that'd be cheaper than two trips if it's really far from home base, but I think it's faster to just measure after the top is installed. That way the install for the splash is just 10-15 minutes. Anyway, I was measuring for a tile estimate. So not a lot of time, but definitely should be taken into account.

It sounds to me like I probably to more gladhanding than most.

[Miles]

We have two shops. One uses LT55s and one uses Proliners. Each shop thinks their's is better because thats what theyre used to. Honest feedback seems to be that Proliners are better on jobs with angles and u shapes. LT software is much better.

I couldn't read most of the original posters posts from start to finish. I would agree that you are over complicating the process. Just an opinion.

Especially if you are new. I know you said you were brought in to streamline the process, but nothing is worse than the new guy that knows it all. Sometimes changing people's way of thinking happens a very little bit at a time.