Where'd the thread go?

[kevinp]

I typed a reply to a thread, hit submit, and it said the post doesn't exist.

[kdnoel]

Some times I hit save instead of submit... but I always get a y/n prompt back

[gshell661]

Not sure what happened, maybe they thought we were have too much fun

[Ken Lago]

Gordon I sensed you were a little pissed at me but thats just the way I roll, straight talk. I in no way was getting personal.
I don't know why the tread got removed, I thought we were quite civil.

[gshell661]

Gordon I sensed you were a little pissed at me but thats just the way I roll, straight talk. I in no way was getting personal.
I don't know why the tread got removed, I thought we were quite civil.

[kevinp]

Gordon, I will try again with my post.
This is my attempt to explain my thoughts on man made products and warranties, mainly ES.
I am accustomed to working with natural materials with natural imperfections. I understand that fissures and other imperfections exist, and so do most of my customers. I can fix most issues with stone to where the customer is happy, including chips or scratches.
My customers understand there is no manufacturers warranty that the material will not have some of these issues.
We work around imperfections when possible and work with the customer for best solution when it's not, which will include ordering new material if needed.
Man made products that are advertised to have a warranty are expected by the customer to perform flawlessly.
So when an issues arrises, they expect replacement, not repairs, especially when repairs are so difficult with ES.
Which leaves us fabricators holding the bag for the labor. Not to mention plumbing, backsplashes and final clean up of the area need to be addressed.
The ES industry has pushed there products at the public on the shoulders of us fabricators, they depend on us because we have the equipment and know how to cut, polish and install it. Then they stab us in the back by attacking our bread and butter with propaganda, and so called warranties that leave false expectations with our customers. Not to mention horrible business practices.
ES and related products have inherant issues, it can stain, scratch, fade, melt and chip.
But the consumer, through advertising doesn't expect that to happen.
Most manufacturers pay for labor and parts to warrant their products, but not ES.
We have seen some pretty weak warranties in our industry from manufacturers. (sealers, ES, and certain granite as well)
I believe this to be the reason so many of us fabricators scoff at some warranties in our industry.

It sounds like your product and service may be better than others. I am sure I will find out some day. But untill then, a lot of us remain leary.
Good luck with EOS!

[gshell661]

I understand the frustrations you all have and I will do my best to make sure I do note fall into the ES category.
Thanks

[politefab]

let me tell you what happen on Friday. i had 2 ladies come in to the shop together they are friends and they are both redoing there kitchen's at the same time. when the cam in the specifically asked by name for ice stone and cambria. the ice stone i have displayed openly in the show room the cambria i have in the bottom of a drawer some where(for obvious reasons) they had been to several show room's in my area and had been doing the internet research thing. They had come to the conclusion that stone was an unsafe unstable mess. one of there friends had granite installed by the shop up the road and had them apply the stone shield sealer as they are the area stone shield specialist. She ended up with several large stains within a month. Between that experience and the complete BS they read on line they had decided that granite was inferior to E.S.

After a few demonstrations and a hunt for the seam in the show room one bought madura gold the other bought blue pear for a total of over 120 sq ft of GET THIS "GRANITE" between the 2 kitchens.

my frustration is that in an attempt to sell E.S. products a lot of money has been spent dumping B.S. the reality is with the advancements in sealers and stone processing it is even more durable and more safe than ever and just keeps getting better. you will never beat the overall quality and beauty of granite.

there is always a market for products like that i hope you find that market and serve it well. as far as warrantys go granite does not need one just a qualified fabricator that proudly strands behind his work.

[Boyd]

The problem with all these 'alternatives' is the resin, aka plastic. It has a number of weak characteristics that are inherent, and to date, unconquerable. I'm talking physical, not chemical, which is a whole other can of worms.

You can hire the brightest marketing team on the planet and the 'warranty' will still require the use of 'weasel' words.

So, they're left to play defense by playing offense. See Build Clean [an unlikely pairing of words].

To the amazement of most, some people continue to wear polyester. They always will.

Boyd, SFA

[Todd Luster]

So couple those obstacles, and what your left with is however far you can trust the company and salespeople, which in my experience as well as those I hear, haven't been too great .

[Todd B]

Arrrhhhhhhh No no I wont say a word

[Steven Hauser]

It's Ok Todd,

Anytime you are interested, I'll show you how to make products that meet the requirements of safety, cleanliness, and Boyd approved.

All you have to do is get Boyd to let me.