CNC Saw Software Wars

[RB Design]

The simpler the software the less flexibility you have. What's your current setup like? How to you see yourself using the machine? are you trying to hit X sq ft a day? Do you want the best mitering with the tightest kerf? do you have a router? do you plan on finger biting a lot?

Each software handles these things differently...

We are working primarily with 2cm material and miter almost 100% of the time.

Ray Bianchi
RB Design

[RB Design]

We've been in business for nearly 25 years and am not hiding from anybody. I'm not sure about the reference to a fictitious name? My name is Ray Bianchi from RB Design. Sorry if it appeared as though I was hiding as that wasn't my intent. I'm new to the site

Ray,

I fixed your signature line so that your name/company is on all your posts. You can change it yourself by following this link.
http://forum.stonefabricatorsalliance.c ... =signature

Thanks Dave!

[Alex DiPietro]

The simpler the software the less flexibility you have. What's your current setup like? How to you see yourself using the machine? are you trying to hit X sq ft a day? Do you want the best mitering with the tightest kerf? do you have a router? do you plan on finger biting a lot?

Each software handles these things differently...

We are working primarily with 2cm material and miter almost 100% of the time.

Ray Bianchi
RB Design

If you miter at all. You NEED a probe. Also ask how each software handles the kerf for bookmatched miters. Also ask if you can common line cut miters. Also ask if you can delete miter cuts from pieces of geometry. Ask how easy it is to change the order of cuts. Lastly, YOU WANT A WOOD TABLE. You want to be able to pause a cycle and screw a small piece of wood or a shim to the saw bed to keep small (think 2" miter laminations) from moving. I often wonder how one would handle cutting automated miters on a sawjet with a durrock table or a cnc saw with a concrete table. I imagine pieces would be moving.

Also, vacuums help save expensive remnants.

[BellaTerra]

Ray, the $250 will be the best investment you made in the 25 years of doing business. You'll have reading for weeks all about others big purchases and what they would recommend to do differently. It's a total game changer to be in the members area.

[Angel]

you don't NEED a probe and you don't NEED a wood table
but yes you need to be able to arrange cut orders. Having the capability to arrange cut orders helps with NOT NEEDING those things. We don't have pcs move….probably on Monday after I get done writing this

[RB Design]

Ray, the $250 will be the best investment you made in the 25 years of doing business. You'll have reading for weeks all about others big purchases and what they would recommend to do differently. It's a total game changer to be in the members area.

I'll do it on Monday morning! Really want to make an informed decision. Thanks!

[RB Design]

I posted this in the other forum. If we primarily miter, how important is it to have a saw with a wide y axis. When the saw moves to 45* you loose a certain amount of the table width. I suppose it depends on how you nest pieces but say a large island.

[Angel]

Ray,
the wider the Y the better obviously.

We typically don't do islands bigger than 110 x 60" I think any cmc saw out there can mitre that size. If for some reason I get an island that can't be mitered all the way around there are ways to still cut your lams and miters. You will always find a way to make something work.

Example I just learned this trick with washers to hold pcs. You could easily use it to but up to for a mitre and lam

[Alex DiPietro]

you don't NEED a probe and you don't NEED a wood table
but yes you need to be able to arrange cut orders. Having the capability to arrange cut orders helps with NOT NEEDING those things. We don't have pcs move….probably on Monday after I get done writing this

When mitering. Do you caliper every slab when before you run the program? I noticed in marks video he had a " 1.125" slab table"... Is that a generic thickness for 3CM? Cut order has nothing to do with a slab probe. So technically no, you don't need a probe. You can use a caliper to get the exact thickness of every slab that you miter. For a shop that miters as often as we do that's just not practical... If you're slab thickness is off 1/16" of an inch then your finished dimensions (@ 45degree miter) will also be off by 1/16".. If you are mitering an island you double the error. This is true for any machine. These machines calculate dimensions of mitered parts by the thickness of the slab... How do other saws calculate blade kerf? If the thickness is incorrect you can also end up with clipping miters (where the opposing miters slightly bevel each other).

As far as wood table. That's a good workaround with the washers, we'll use sink clips sometimes like pinstops. But we screw wood to the table every day. Also keep in mind that we use the incremental tip on the saw for nearly all cutouts. So when we throw up small parts we'd rather screw some wood to the table than have small parts move.

[Angel]

We would get the thickness with a caliper and enter that value. As far as the blade kerf it's as simple as bringing the blade down to the table and hit the calibrate button, it takes literally 20 seconds. We would also do this for the depth of incremental bit, we also do some sinks and inside corners on the saw.

We could/have screwed down wood with tap cons on the cement table.

[Dan R.]

Could calibrate the blade be done in lieu of a probe? Same thing, sort of, it seems to me, with the slabs thickness with calipers.

[graniteman]

Could calibrate the blade be done in lieu of a probe? Same thing, sort of, it seems to me, with the slabs thickness with calipers.

In order for the saw to cut a miter exact it needs to know the exact thickness of the material and the exact diameter of the blade. When coming in at a 45° angle both measurements will cause the miter to be off.

[Alex DiPietro]

The diameter of the blade won't affect a miter. The width of the blade will. That's set up beforehand.... When I was referring to kerf size I was really referring to the space between two opposing Miters. I'm curios how small this space is on other machines. It seems to me that without a probe there must be a larger space to serve as a buffer. For what it's worth I wish my machine probed more than once, like a donation does.

[Dan R.]

Alex, it seems that multiple probes could be tweaked in programming,eh?

[RB Design]

Ray,
the wider the Y the better obviously.

We typically don't do islands bigger than 110 x 60" I think any cmc saw out there can mitre that size. If for some reason I get an island that can't be mitered all the way around there are ways to still cut your lams and miters. You will always find a way to make something work.

Example I just learned this trick with washers to hold pcs. You could easily use it to but up to for a mitre and lam

Awesome! Thanks Angel

[Joe Durfee]

I often wonder how one would handle cutting automated miters on a sawjet with a durrock table or a cnc saw with a concrete table. I imagine pieces would be moving.)

You upgrade to a giant rubber belt.

Our machine measures the diameter of the blade after every slab and probes both the start and finish of each miter cut and adjusts accordingly. The accuracy of pieces (even 40mm aprons) is awesome. We are usually within 0.5mm. Sometimes when pieces have miters on both sides, it can be off a little more but not enough to worry about it.

[RB Design]

I often wonder how one would handle cutting automated miters on a sawjet with a durrock table or a cnc saw with a concrete table. I imagine pieces would be moving.)

You upgrade to a giant rubber belt.

Our machine measures the diameter of the blade after every slab and probes both the start and finish of each miter cut and adjusts accordingly. The accuracy of pieces (even 40mm aprons) is awesome. We are usually within 0.5mm. Sometimes when pieces have miters on both sides, it can be off a little more but not enough to worry about it.

What saw do you have Joe?

[GuyboR]

What saw do you have Joe?

His post on his move to the new building

http://forum.stonefabricatorsalliance.c ... 79&t=17929


His saw/and youtube channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d0hCLPLLh8

Company video on their saw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ieGQ-WRpo

[Intel Power - Machine Div]

Gents,

Jumping in a little late here, but it’s the crazy time of year.

OK, so I made a few videos with the Taglio program demonstrating different cutting / programing capabilities. This is all done on the PC using Logotag Cad/Cam software. The code once compiled can be sent to the machine. I will try to make some videos latter of the onboard programing software that comes standard with all the Denver CNC saws.

These videos are using the medium sized Denver - Tecnika 5-axis CNC Saw which has a
footprint of 15’ X 20’

Demo Nesting – and Automatic Cutting and Moving
https://youtu.be/Urvwyd4AraI
https://youtu.be/Urvwyd4AraI

Demo Importing a file from a laser template, placing pieces on slab, automatic cutting and milling
https://youtu.be/iiDVlnXisds
https://youtu.be/iiDVlnXisds

Demo demonstrating how the cut and move can increase miter capability on the saw, compensating for the losses in X & Y – axis when the blade is tilted.
https://youtu.be/jUyjCqd1j8w
https://youtu.be/jUyjCqd1j8w

Demo Bookmatching a tub surround with multiple slabs, with camera option.
https://youtu.be/B00Cbm8SfqI
https://youtu.be/B00Cbm8SfqI

Let me know if you have any questions. I will try to reply as promptly as possible.

As far as touch probes, this machine has both for Slab Thickness and Blade Diameter.
As to the quality of miter, there are 3 factors: Blade thickness (programed in the tool description), Material Thickness (Touch probe or manually measure), Table calibration.

Thanks

[Intel Power - Machine Div]

Gents,

As promised, please find below a quick demo of the Taglio Touch program which is standard on all the Denver CNC saws. It is designed to be run at the console of the machine via a 17” touch screen and the manual controls of the machine. You can also use it with a mouse and keyboard as I am demonstrating it.

Its good to have both options as sometimes with wet or dirty hands, touch screen programing becomes a little finicky.

Again, this demo was done using the medium sized Denver - Tecnika 5-axis CNC Saw which has a
footprint of 15’ X 20’

The video shows simple cuts by moving the head of the machine and programing lengths, working with a predefined parametric files for standard type kitchens, or importing a dxf from a templated kitchen. And then automatically cutting and milling.

This was a quick demo just to get a feel for the interface and capabilities, and so not all the options were demonstrated.



https://youtu.be/UmrIYm24byw

[RB Design]

Gents,

Jumping in a little late here, but it’s the crazy time of year.

OK, so I made a few videos with the Taglio program demonstrating different cutting / programing capabilities. This is all done on the PC using Logotag Cad/Cam software. The code once compiled can be sent to the machine. I will try to make some videos latter of the onboard programing software that comes standard with all the Denver CNC saws.

These videos are using the medium sized Denver - Tecnika 5-axis CNC Saw which has a
footprint of 15’ X 20’

Demo Nesting – and Automatic Cutting and Moving
https://youtu.be/Urvwyd4AraI
https://youtu.be/Urvwyd4AraI

Demo Importing a file from a laser template, placing pieces on slab, automatic cutting and milling
https://youtu.be/iiDVlnXisds
https://youtu.be/iiDVlnXisds

Demo demonstrating how the cut and move can increase miter capability on the saw, compensating for the losses in X & Y – axis when the blade is tilted.
https://youtu.be/jUyjCqd1j8w
https://youtu.be/jUyjCqd1j8w

Demo Bookmatching a tub surround with multiple slabs, with camera option.
https://youtu.be/B00Cbm8SfqI
https://youtu.be/B00Cbm8SfqI

Let me know if you have any questions. I will try to reply as promptly as possible.

As far as touch probes, this machine has both for Slab Thickness and Blade Diameter.
As to the quality of miter, there are 3 factors: Blade thickness (programed in the tool description), Material Thickness (Touch probe or manually measure), Table calibration.

Thanks

Paolo, great videos! I am still looking at saws and one of them recently was the Tecnika. I would love to see the first video again with mitering edges and how you would go about nesting and using the vacuum lifter. It would be great if there was sound as well with you explaining each step.

[Alex DiPietro]

Taglio seems daunting for cutting slabs...

[RB Design]

Taglio seems daunting for cutting slabs...

Alex, I probably asked you before but what saw do you have and do you like the software? I also thought Taglii was a bit cumbersome but they now have software at the machine (Denver ) called 'Facile' which was quite simple. I just did a demo with them on it. You don't need Taglio yet you would need Cad/Cam to create .dxf for sending to the machine. Just like any software, it always seams complicated at first. An example is AutoCad. I watch guys flying with it and yet to ait in front of it looks incredibly complicated.

[BellaTerra]

I'm bringing this thread back to life!!!

We are back at looking for a saw. Buying the Router for the price we did has given me room in the budget to pursue a saw. That being said the Router still cost a lot so budget is important.

What I am interested in knowing is how does each companies vein matching software stack up? Sasso requires slabsmith, Donatoni was working on something (is it ready?), Breton and Denver have their own. How do they all compare? Who loves theirs? Who hates theirs?

[Dave.Scott]

We use Slabsmith, all you need to know.