Donatoni saw and service feedback

[EID GRANITE]

I am fishing to see what other buyer experiences might be with their Donatoni saws and the level of service they have received. I have not had a great experience so far. Here is a little of my issues with the saw and the service
>I was told that I could use my Taglio photo software with it (Not True and Donatoni seems to not have a clue how to make this happen)
> I was told we could program it from the office like we do with our CNC and Jet/Saw (Not true and they were stumped on this also)
> Now here is the reason as to why none of this will happen, They out a 2016 machine with Windows XP thats right Windows XP which has not had support for years.

> I since then have been told for over a month that they would be installing Windows 10 on it but here I sit still waiting.

> The saw throws an error code up in the middle of cutting some times several times on each slab thats cut so it can take up to 2 hours to cut a single slab ( This I made them aware of some time ago and here I still sit waiting for an answer on that also).

From what I can tell Intermac has taken on Donatoni but none of their guys have been sufficiently trained on these machines and Donatoni dont care as long as orders keep coming in. No one from Donatoni has made an effort to reach out to me to resolve these issues.

[RBatstone]

I have heard of issues with people getting the machine going properly.

[mikedean]

Thanks for sharing your experience.

[Michele Ragno]

Chris,
It is true that there is a learning curve for both of us (Intermac) and the customers.
However, my experience has been that despite early bumps things work out quite well and customers end up quite happy with the machines.

First of all, I can only apologize for the delays in getting your issues straightened out. But please give me the opportunity to reply to your point.

1) Taglio SW: as you know a CNC machine such the Donatoni JET 625 works with ISO codes that may be generated/programmed with different CAD/CAM systems such as your Taglio software… with a proper Taglio post-processor and saying that “it is Not True” is improper.
Donatoni is working with Taglio in order to make a post-process for you. Our fault is that we did not gave you a dead line on this yet… our bad and I do apologize!
2) Generate the program from the office: if you would like better to program the JET 625 from the office with the same SW as you have on the machine, this option is available…. Let us know if you want this option better than the Taglio option.
3) Windows XP: Donatoni updated the system to Windows 10 and we have in order the new computer for you. as soon as available we will perform the upgrade. However none of the above (point 1 and 2) as anything to do with XP.... again our fault is that we did not gave you a dead line on this yet... my apologize!

That been said. I personally apologize again for the inconvenient and the time we are taking to “close this ticket”
I’ll personally work with our service department to serve you better and faster from now on.

Best Regards.

[Alex DiPietro]

I have to side with the fabricator here! I've heard salespeople give the biggest loads of bullshit to people regarding machinery. I wouldn't doubt for one second that a salesperson told this man his machine would do xyz right out of the box. This is the biggest problem with machine companies, misrepresentation during the sales process.

[ChrisGraham]

YEP!! I agree with ALEX!

[Mitch@ASW]

Threads like this scare me when I am considering upgrading... Perhaps the proof is in the pudding? Maybe worthwhile to visit another fabricator running the same machine and try to do everything that I would in my situation... My issue is that I just don't know what I don't know, ya know?

[Alex_Bores]

I have to side with the fabricator here! I've heard salespeople give the biggest loads of bullshit to people regarding machinery. I wouldn't doubt for one second that a salesperson told this man his machine would do xyz right out of the box. This is the biggest problem with machine companies, misrepresentation during the sales process.

I for one think this post is completely bias. I know other people that are having troubles with their brand new machines, yet they don't go on the forum and "blast" the company for it. Blast, might be harsh since this is a forum...but you know what i mean. Right?

I have heard countless of stories of "oh he sold me and i've never heard from him again" It all comes down to the user. Did the purchaser ask the right questions to "help" the sale? Did the salesman offer the answers to those questions and ask the purchaser if the saw was right fit? a great salesman can control the sale and

So many questions arise on this post.
I think that if you were to look at the entire picture, the machine listed above is one heck of a machine. Is it the only option? No! But somewhere it was the quality, it was the customer service, it was something that made you choose that machine above all others. I am positive that they will get your issues figured out.

As a salesman, my job is to educate and structure the sale itself. If i do that I can walk away knowing i did everything in my power to do the right thing. So to speak. Now, customer service is another thing. Im 100% positive that the issues above will be and are underway. Although time is money for the fabricator. Its even more money lost by the machine company.

[GlobalEquipment]

Speaking from experience in selling Denver equipment that also used the Taglio software, there were MANY scenarios, where we were explained how the software was SUPPOSED to work and when the machine went in, the software decided to work in a completely different manner. Not to pass the blame fully on Taglio but the post processors for every different manufacturer can be different and getting the two to play nicely was quite the task for many installations even on the Denver equipment so I can imagine Donatoni is going through the same thing. Taglio seems to complicate things by using "On Board" and "Off Board" capabilities for the software and camera systems and we again experienced many times where fabricators wanted to program from an office vs. right at the saw or both and many changed their minds on that during the period between the sales process and the actual installation. If you dont buy BOTH capabilities UP FRONT(with Denver it was an add on for either module) and it was sold orginally to be programmed at the saw and then suddenly they want to use it at an office or both, well that is not just something you just can turn on or off and now you have an issue. Taglio was always pretty good on working with us and the customers to resolve an issue like that but these things dont happen over night. In cases where it wasnt just a misunderstanding or change of heart in what module was purchased and the software was creating mystery errors....a lot of code has to be changed and then tested etc. before it is sent to the customer as a "patch" to resolve the problem they are having. Can be quite frustrating but again the nature of the beast unfortunately. Donatoni will most likely go through the same pains we did and this will surely have an impact on how it is presented to the customers moving forward by the salespeople. At least I would hope.

[mark s]

I've been both en engineer of big capital equipment and a buyer/end user.

As is typically the case there are two sides to this.

Some salesguys know the technology of their products inside and out and can be relied upon to provide an accurate assessment of the capabilities of the machine and software with respect to a given end users application. Sometimes they're full of bullshit. (I once had the saleguy of a european machine tell me that the HP and torque spec of a spindle "were the same thing".)

It's become a lot harder to be that knowledgeable kind of salesguy when so much of a machines capability is dependent on software. This is especially true when the software is 3rd party and in that case the only safe way to evaluate a machine is by visiting a site with the same machine AND the same software version.

Regarding post processors; they often become software that will be available "RSN", i.e Real Soon Now which, unfortunately, sometimes is never. If I was buying a machine which was to include an undemonstrated (and possibly undeveloped) capability I would require a substantial price holdback dependent on delivery of the capability. Also, if that capability is critical to the payback calculation on the machine I wouldn't buy it until I'd seen it demonstrated.

Forums like this one are invaluable because they reduce the opportunity for an OEM to sell machines that don't work as advertised or are unreliable. Even when a vendor ultimately "makes good" on a machine or software problem it is usually a miserable time for the end user.

As a buyer it's worth it to fully research a machine since in most cases you'll be using it for years. Some vendors (BACA Sys in MI is the only one I can think of in our industry) will actually pay your way to see their machines. Either way, you see enough comments on this forum from people that have struggled with new machines to realize the pre-purchase research and investigation is worth the effort.

[EID GRANITE]

Alex,
This thread is not a "Blast" it was done out of frustration as this BS has been going on for months and I seem to not be getting anywhere with them. I went on here to see if there were others that may be having the same experiences that I have.

I thought the purpose of this site was for ppl to share their experiences and information with each other to kind of look out for one another . When making a large purchase such as this ppl on here like to be informed before they spend close to $200,000 dollars I would think.

As for the sales guy that sold this machine to me he understood perfectly what I intended to do with it and how I planned to use it . The salesman has sold me and his company has sold me 5 machines so they knew perfectly what software I was using and how I was planning to use it.

Now to Michele as for the UPGRADE to be able to program the machine from the office WHY IN THE HELL IS THIS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE HEARD OF THIS after months of going back and forth with you guys ? I asked your salesman repeatedly if I would be able to program it from my office like I do all the other machines I purchased from you guys and he said no problem so why does the machine not have this on it? Every time I ask about this the solution from your ppl is Team Viewer no a upgrade. One last question why has no one from Donatoni reached out to resolve these issues?

In closing I STILL SIT HERE WAITING and no one has reached out to me and nor have I received the new computer that Italy was gonna send me for well over a month. Must be some slow mail men in Italy I guess.

[Eric R]

Chris, I'm sorry for your frustrations. I won't make light of them at all, but I will share what I think is some helpful perspective considering the situation, so please don't be offended, I've felt this type of pain before and I know it can be especially maddening while in the heat of battle. Some points I'd like to make.

First, Donatoni makes nice equipment. I know, I have one.

Second, Intermac is their US representation for this machine, so they will be able to speak (and make repairs) on behalf of Donatoni.

Third, you just had a direct reply from a VP at Intermac through this forum and he apologized and included his cell number. So, you have their attention. That means this forum is working and you are connecting with him and other Donatoni owners like me.

Fourth, Michele's attention means nothing if he doesn't do anything with it. I get that.


Michele, this is a dream! Absolutely a DREAM! How it turns out is up to you. Good dream/bad dream...your choice. People are paying attention and I can tell you from experience that how a problem is handled means even more than the fact that there was even a problem! Take care of Chris in a reasonable, fair, manner and the dream can still be good and it gives you credibility moving forward. So, when someone shows up to your booth at TISE/Stone Expo next month there is already a level of trust there. Ignore him and the dream...well...it's not something that will be easily swept under the rug. I've never had the impression that you were that type of guy anyway, so I hope this works out for both you and Chris.

Chris, my initial plan was to program in the office. I was told this won't be like your cnc router and you'll want to program at the machine by multiple people. Turns out those people were right. We saved the extra expense (we were informed of it) and applied the money towards a second camera to use when new vein matching software was available from Donatoni. Still waiting for that software

[Alex_Bores]

Alex,
This thread is not a "Blast" it was done out of frustration as this BS has been going on for months and I seem to not be getting anywhere with them. I went on here to see if there were others that may be having the same experiences that I have.

I thought the purpose of this site was for ppl to share their experiences and information with each other to kind of look out for one another . When making a large purchase such as this ppl on here like to be informed before they spend close to $200,000 dollars I would think.

As for the sales guy that sold this machine to me he understood perfectly what I intended to do with it and how I planned to use it . The salesman has sold me and his company has sold me 5 machines so they knew perfectly what software I was using and how I was planning to use it.

I apologize. I think that I am out of line when i said the word "blast". As a newer addition to the site, Im not afraid to admit when i was wrong and I am sorry for the misuse of the word.

You are 100% correct on the purpose of the forum. I can understand your frustration and it is not my place to tell you how to feel about this situation. Knowing the backstory, I would not have said what I said in the above.

I sincerely hope that you get things figured out and everything works to your advantage.

[GlobalEquipment]

The beauty of this forum in my opinion is it exposes both the good and the bad. Lets all be honest and admit that we have ALL screwed up with a customer or customers at some point in time and no one is perfect. If I were to say EVERY ONE of the machines I have ever sold went in without a hitch and never had an issue, its obvious im lying through my teeth lol.....I think its good that you are showing the issues you are having and hopefully Donatoni / Intermac address the issue and quickly for you. Having a VP reach out on here speaks volumes for the forum though and I would surely use the cell phone number he provided. Not to rip on the Italians but I think every single person who has ever owned an Italian machine can say that you MUST stay on them if you want something accomplished or resolved...it is no secret they tend to have a much more "relaxed" way of doing business at times and the sense of urgency needs to be pushed

[Eric R]

Well said Jeffrey!

Alex, unless there was something I missed you certainly never came across out of line. Your input has always been welcome and appreciated.

[bocephus]

I've found this thread extremely interesting and it has caused me to ponder a few questions concerning Italian stone equipment manufacturers...

I only know of 3 Italian manufacturers with brick and mortar OEM infrastructure in place in the states to service their customer: CMS, Breton, and Intermac. The rest have "representation" such as Global Equipment, Salem, etc. correct? So, how does a third party seller of equipment service their customer? Do they have people in place to handle technical questions or is everything referred to the OEM in Italy? Do third parties stock parts? On the flip side, do manufacturers with infrastructure here in the states still refer to Italy when handling technical issues?

I saw the post a few weeks ago where GMM have sold 30 of their new monoblock saw since the Verona show and they are about to start installing them in North America. I also read a post in the members section where another person said GMM was spread pretty thin on service and installation because of the reliance on one person here in the states to take care of most of the technical support (my interpretation of the quote). Are these manufacturers proactively taking measures to ramp up their ability to service the customer in relation to machines sold or are they relying on one or two "super techs" to keep everyone happy? Same with Sasso... they have become really popular with their line of automated saws but to my knowledge Mark Lauzon is the only one here in the states that sales and installs them and a number of people on here have said how easy it is to get up with him and he handle their issue. What happens when he has 20,30,40,50 more saws to keep running?

It seems as if Donatoni/Intermac started selling saws here in the states without a clear path for taking care of customer issues atleast in the short term which would make me question their decision making ability to handle my issues in the long term.

Since dealing with "Italy" seems to be challenging at best and mostly just plain infuriating why should any fabricator buy from an Italian manufacturer that doesn't have proven track record of taking care of issues and the infrastructure in place to handle needs down the road? I plan to to buy a saw in 2017 and this thread has given me serious food for thought.

Sorry for your troubles "EID Granite" and thanks for sharing!

[wkluender]

I agree about service being the #1 issue to hammer out during negotiations, how ever the one disadvantage the American manufactures have compared to the Italians I believe, is quite literally the size of thier machines. Park makes solid equipment, but it's all HUGE. My shop is small and doesn't have much for clear span so in regards to routers, we will pretty much be ushered into Italian machines. I had an American manufacturer basically tell me they don't like selling equipment to shops with side walls less than about 18 ft.

[tim farr]

Gmm has a "brick and mortar store" in North Carolina. Taf stocks a pretty good amount of stuff that will go wrong with a gmm saw. As far as dealing with software, etc. it's just a matter of teamviewer. After I bought my saw the sacrado motor had a bearing that was making noise so I called Taf about it. He ordered the bearings and an Italian tech came and changed them. I own 2 pieces of Italian equipment and absolutely love them both. As you are well aware it is frustrating as hell when you're down but the reality is I've always gotten good service from both. Intermac also stocks almost every part for their machines in nc as well. And for the record, Michele is a good guy and cares about his customers.

[Dave.Scott]

You should check out the Park Titan 2700. It is a one pick machine, has a smaller footprint, belt drive and Park's service and parts really can't be beat.

I had Park buy a seat on a Northwest flight to Bozeman to get me a new spindle in 5 hours.

[Dan R.]

Sweet.

GMM saw and Sirio. Never had an issue with service. Of course, some parts come from Italy, not the end of the world, imo.
Never had an issue with the Sirio, ever.

Saw has had some technological hiccups, most solved through team viewer or over the phone. Parts arrive promptly.

Fair question about service. One may look to all manufacturers, even American, for changes in levels of support availability.

[Dave.Scott]

The really good manufacturers, and there are many, want you to be trouble free, happy and making money.
Italian, German and American, they are all the same.

It is hard to hear that there is some outstanding problem, since they are all great people doing their best.

My only issues have been the difference between our language, culture, their attitude and ours.
They are not are trying to F*k you or me, it is just a different world.
They will take care of you.

Now, that said, I have chosen to be USA only. Not because of anything other than; speed of response, August and December, Montana's embrace of us being USA only, and me not having to push "1" for English or wondering what time it is.

[Mark Lauzon]

Same with Sasso... they have become really popular with their line of automated saws but to my knowledge Mark Lauzon is the only one here in the states that sales and installs them and a number of people on here have said how easy it is to [contact] him and he handles their issue.

If you are going to mention me by name in a post....please get the facts straight.

Sasso has FIVE American techs in the USA, (Clinton, Zach, Mike, Jim, and Joe) ONE in Canada (Guiesspei..yes...he is from Italy), A full time AlphaCam support tech (Pete), A corporate office in Illinois, warehousing in N. Carolina and Chicago and a parts facility in Arizona. We also have a full time customer assistance coordinator in Arizona (Brennan). I think the total team is now over ten full time providing support in the US. (that does not include our sales force) enough to properly service our installed base of customers. Stop by our booth at the show next month and I will introduce you to some of these good people.

And....Mark does not install a damn thing.....I sacrifice a week away from my family and sleep in lame ass hotels for my customers. I go to all my installations to insure things go smoothly and spend most my time working with shop owners while my tech spins the wrenches. I often provide advice on a systems approach to digital manufacturing, file management, advanced alphacam training (beyond the basics) digital templating and anything else I can do to help them be successful and profitable with their new gear. I can expertly operate all of the equipment I sell (including Northwood gear), and happen to know a little bit about fabricating stone.

I ask my customers to call me first if there is an issue so I know about it...many times I can solve it on the spot. I work hard to solve problems for my customers AFTER the sale....way after. I learned that by both good and bad examples I experienced as a stone shop owner.

walt-disney-customer-satisfaction-quotes.png (78.16KiB)Viewed 2298 times

Happy Holidays

Warmest,
Mark

PS don't get me started about programing at the controls and overhead cameras

[Dan R.]

Mike & Joe are great guys. I have known them for over 20 years.

That is quite a support network.

Thanks for clearing that up.

We have gotten good support from all of our Italian machines.

Merry Christmas, Salesman everywhere!!

[Mark Lauzon]

Merry Christmas to you my stone crafting brother

[bocephus]

Thanks for answering my questions! I certainly wasn't trying to slam Italian equipment but was curious about how some of them took care of service in light of what EID is going through.

Mark...I apologize as I assumed using your name in my post wouldn't be an issue since you are one of the more recognized posters on the site. Also, I wasn't stating facts but only how I knew them to be "to my knowledge." Thanks for answering and I will give you a call once I get into the tire kicking phase of saw buying.

Merry Christmas!