SFA

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:57 pm**

just wondering if anyone else is getting a lot of warped slab? I am not new to the business. Everything is stored inside on the proper racks and tight together. also only use 3cm material. I have read other post about sun and heat and bla bla this is not what is causing this. The slabs have been coming this way from the suppliers. Black pearl Ornamentale Dark and Light, New Caledonia. Im getting really frustrated with the way seams are turning out. Are others top polishing the seams? We use the omni stealth seam setters. seam phantom I have every tool to help. its the warpage causing the problems for me. These slabs are not all from the same supplier either. Hope to get some help.
Thanks

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:07 pm**

Once in a while I run into warped slaps, if too much I send them back.

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:26 pm**

We reject anything warped past a certain point. It's to much of a pain to even try and make it work anymore!

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:37 pm**

We top polish most of our Granite seams

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:51 pm**

We've been hearing a lot more about warped slabs.

It is just a feeling, but this seems to have increased over the last 10 years.

You mentioned proper storage, heat, etc., but I believe sometimes (more often now) the slabs are just cut warped.
Theory: Maybe they are rushing and not paying attention to proper tension in the diamond cables and they are veering when hitting hard and soft spots? My theory has been: Maybe the increasing popularity of multi-wire saws don't cut as straight as the older blade gang saws. And... The aging blade gang saws are being replaced more and more as of late. So, will this problem get worse?

I remember an article on this subject from a long time ago. I just found it was in Stone Business from 2009.
http://www.stonebusiness.us/index.php?o ... Itemid=192

Side note: It seems like the heat, tight bundles, proper storage etc. probably matter more with engineered stone.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:42 am**

Thanks for the comments. What system are you using to top polish Andy? I do believe Larry, that the speed and tension on blades and wires are playing a role in this. I was a foreman at dimensional stone company before I started in countertops on my own. this was an issue i know about. step down deflection doglegging and deviant wires. we had guys pounding on the big blades to re tension them all the time. very cool to see how that is done. Question is why does it get passed on to us the end user? I know its the money. but are there better quarries to get the same slabs from? are the slabs more? who is selling them? We are not the cheap guys here by any means, but we have to compete with bullshit companies in Markham and its all Chinese crap! 25 30 dollars a foot installed im already over 60. im going down personally today to inspect the bundles that are ordered. shouldnt have to do that.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:46 am**

I have also wondered what the standard procedure is for seams that are warped(which I feel, majority of our slabs are). We do 3 kitchen installs a day and 2 of which probably have seams, to me I don't see having enough time in a day to do those installs and surface polish those seams down. Obviously how long it takes to polish a seam down depends on how bad it's warped and color but when time=money and I feel like the warped slab problem needs to be addressed when the material arrives at your shop and not inside someone's home.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:58 am**

I 100% agree with you matt. I absolutely hate finding things out while install is happening. We do 2 installs a day sometimes 3 and most have seams. I cant seem to get slab usage to be something that the designers think of in planning. makes too much sense i guess. not only do we not have time to top polish, I dont have an installer that can top polish to what i would expect is except-able.
Glad its not just me that is finding this warpage. Im not a new guy that they think they can send garbage slabs. anyone in Toronto think they have the best supplier?

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:58 am**

I 100% agree with you matt. I absolutely hate finding things out while install is happening. We do 2 installs a day sometimes 3 and most have seams. I cant seem to get slab usage to be something that the designers think of in planning. makes too much sense i guess. not only do we not have time to top polish, I dont have an installer that can top polish to what i would expect is except-able.
Glad its not just me that is finding this warpage. Im not a new guy that they think they can send garbage slabs. anyone in Toronto think they have the best supplier?

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:14 am**

Our top polishing technique is discussed in the members lounge. Not sure if you're a member or not but its not something I like to discuss in an open forum. Its not my technique, I adopted it from someones who's not in the business anymore but lots of fabricators use it. It takes about 20-30 min on average. A badly warped slab might take 45min. Ususally, there is stuff for the #2 guy to do while its getting done (sink mount, clean, wax, ager, seal, cut splash, ect).

I haven't noticed granite slabs getting any worse but the quartz slabs are definitely getting worse with warps.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:17 am**

yes i am a member i will look for that post. thanks

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:42 am**

On another note, are there any companies out there that hand check every slab that comes in and only excepting perfectly flat slabs? I know it might seem as simple as putting a straight edge on a slab while its out in the yard but sometimes what might seem like a "manageable warp" in a slab prior to cutting might turn into a 1/8"-3/16" warp between 2 seamed pieces. With that being said, get someone trained to surface polishing and have him ready for when you need to use his surface skills. Out of the 10 or so seams we do a week, we only surface polish 2 of them and the other 8 we get them the best we can using gorilla grips and the appropriate glue. Not saying it's the best model, just what we do.

Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:55 pm**

We use the Stone Pro Seam Setters to force out a certain amount of warp at the seams at install. We use 2-4 seamers per seam depending on the length of the seam. This has been highly successful for us. We also cut 1/8" deep grooves in the joining edges and put enough polyester epoxy down in the seam so that when the seam is squeezed together it works kind of like an epoxy "biscuit" joint but doesn't squeeze out the top. Some slabs however do get rejected at delivery.

https://www.braxton-bragg.com/index.cfm ... c/0,11118/

Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:03 pm**

we have tried to use more seamsetters on a seam as well. we do the same idea for biscuits . I was just wondering if other suppliers are getting shittier slabs then normal latley, and if they are then what is the solution after the fabrication is done and its to late to return slabs.

Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:37 pm**

Brembana4axis wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:55 pm
We use the Stone Pro Seam Setters to force out a certain amount of warp at the seams at install. We use 2-4 seamers per seam depending on the length of the seam. This has been highly successful for us. We also cut 1/8" deep grooves in the joining edges and put enough polyester epoxy down in the seam so that when the seam is squeezed together it works kind of like an epoxy "biscuit" joint but doesn't squeeze out the top. Some slabs however do get rejected at delivery.

https://www.braxton-bragg.com/index.cfm ... c/0,11118/
[

How well are these working vs the Gorilla Grips?

There are sometimes that I feel like the Gorilla Grips seam to make things worse than better

Posted: **Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:32 am**

I just looked up the Stone Pro Seam Setters. I have never seen them before. Do you use these in a pair? if so each has an independent vacuum? I really like the open space on the stone to work with. Havent seen them in canada yet

Posted: **Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:15 am**

On a standard 25-1/2" deep counter we use a pair. On Islands that need seams we use up to four at once. Yes they each have an independent built in vac pump so you don't have vac line running all over the place.. The pump runs off of either a built in rechargeable battery or you can run it while plugged into power if battery is dead. Open space above the seam is the reason we switched to these ones from a different brand.

As far as comparing these to the Gorilla grips. I do not have any experience with the Gorilla grips, but looking at pictures online it looks like these do not have any downward pressure screws which is what is absolutely essential when forcing the warp out of a seam. As you can see in the following picture, the Stone Pro has 4 leveling screws, this gives you 8 per standard seam if you are using them in pairs.

We have found that when applying pressure to the high points of your seam via the Seam Setters leveling pins you must alternately apply "up" pressure from the bottom by wedging shims between counter top and cabinet at your low points. You are essentially forcing the warp out of the stone. We have been using this method for around 5 years now and have not had a problem with seams "popping" either.

All that said, there is a certain time when slabs are bad enough from the factory that we do reject them.

Posted: **Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:22 am**

just something to consider.. how you cut your jobs out of the material can make a huge difference on the lippage/bow at the seam

Posted: **Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:06 pm**

Brembana4axis wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:15 am
On a standard 25-1/2" deep counter we use a pair. On Islands that need seams we use up to four at once. Yes they each have an independent built in vac pump so you don't have vac line running all over the place.. The pump runs off of either a built in rechargeable battery or you can run it while plugged into power if battery is dead. Open space above the seam is the reason we switched to these ones from a different brand.

As far as comparing these to the Gorilla grips. I do not have any experience with the Gorilla grips, but looking at pictures online it looks like these do not have any downward pressure screws which is what is absolutely essential when forcing the warp out of a seam. As you can see in the following picture, the Stone Pro has 4 leveling screws, this gives you 8 per standard seam if you are using them in pairs.
We have found that when applying pressure to the high points of your seam via the Seam Setters leveling pins you must alternately apply "up" pressure from the bottom by wedging shims between counter top and cabinet at your low points. You are essentially forcing the warp out of the stone. We have been using this method for around 5 years now and have not had a problem with seams "popping" either.

All that said, there is a certain time when slabs are bad enough from the factory that we do reject them.
[

Gorilla Grips have leveling screws, back in the day they had cams. Putting shims under the counter is only to level and have absolutely NO effect on getting the warp out, obvious.

Posted: **Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:04 pm**

Brembana4axis,

Gorilla Grips have screws for downward pressure.

The older version used a nautilus shaped cam that works great to this day.

Go back and look again.

SFA

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