BVC Pod Height

[K.O.]

Because I said I would start a new thread... Here you go!

https://youtu.be/WSlXlH7IUsE

Here are some of the BVC cups I have in my shop taken in on trade for this specific reason...

[Andy Ross]

Klint, can you do the same test but put a piece of glass or stone on top and vacuum the top as well. To get completely accurate results, the top and bottom need to be under vacuum so everything sucks together.

[K.O.]

Andy,

That is not correct. Vacuum will not bring the top up or or down. Sorry, that just will not happen. As we sowed in the video, the correct way to measure a cups height is with a pressure sensitive height gauge and the base of the cup under vacuum.

Also, I posted this to show that BVC does not meet their stated tolerance of .006(unknowns). I am assuming that is a positive tolarence, but it has still yet to be clarified. Even when measuring several different points within 1 cup it does not meet that tolarence .

[Andy Ross]

I guess I'm not understanding how that doesn't matter. The tops are removable and if they aren't suction down all the way you're going to get variation in height. To me the most accurate way to measure something is to use it for its intended purpose and take a measurement that way. Blicks tops aren't removable if I remember correctly so you wouldn't have to suction down on those. The green pods have a removable top and bottom so to get them completely sandwiched together you would need to put them under suction on both top and bottom.

[K.O.]

If you assume suction always works in a downward force, how do we compensate for a cup that is below a stated height?

Suction is suction, it is separate from accuracy.

Some of the cups you see in the photo were sent to me from a customer that was struggling with height issues on BVC pods, they broke a large island they were fabricating while using BVC pods, not once but twice. After determining that the pods were not accurate they abandened them. A height variance of 1mm from pod to pod would not only affect edge profiles, but in this case it broke the part.

[Andy Ross]

I call bull$hit on 1mm breaking a top. Maybe the pods were off but they didn't break the top. Klint, I've used both blick and bvc.....my blicks are for sale.

My last post on it

[Camzl1]

Okay Klint, Andy is correct on measuring the pods as intended. If the BVC cups have a removable seal then it needs to be fully seated before checking. It does not have to be vacuum to do this though. It can simply be weight. Vacuumed against a ridged flat plate would put any doubt out of the equation and would also take out any deflection of the gasket. As far as a low cup, they don’t work and are usually the source of leaks. When we use an assortment of brand blick or brand BVC, but not interchanged, the piece becomes as a whole. If the BVC cups were off over 1mm I will ask how did they even get vacuum at all. Did they organize the pods in an uphill or downhill slope to make sure the pod that was off 1mm didn’t cause a high spot?

Andy, Klint is right. I have seen many occasions as a technician where 1mm and less destroyed a top. I never saw 1mm though. It is most prominent to happen on large profile shapes though. I have never seen it on small profiles. But every encapsulated profile larger than 6mm radius T I have seen it.

[K.O.]

Eric!

Nice to see you at TISE. I hope all is well. Thanks for defending my integrity too! It is refreshing to hear a fair and balanced opinion from some one that I respect.

A variance in height over a spread of cups properly placed out under a piece will cause a profile problem. There are plenty of people sharing experiences with us. Many that tried BVC, only to come back to our product.

I started this thread because BVC and some of their agents claim a tolerance of .006 (still to be determined units and variance, +/-) and it’s just not true.

Furthermore, BVC doesnt have “self-leveling cups” as Andy claims. You can’t spread them out, vacuum material to them and expect them to be consistent in height. The height of the cup can only be determined by vacuuming the base and measuring the top. In the video I shot, I forced the top all the way on with all of my upper body weight, while that might not be scientific, it shows that the top is way below 105 and definitely doesn’t come close to the claimed tolerance of .006(unknowns). Vacuuming heavy material to it would only make that worse.

I think that fabricators need to know that about this product, thank you for your insight and experience!

Klint

[Amroczka]

Forget a top breaking, ide be more worried about my tools. 1mm off on a 3mm radius T profile would probably do some damage wouldnt it? Especially the 20mm wheels
Thank you for posting this. Ive been waiting for answers on this topic. Seems everybody has something different to say. Last year at tise, bvc told me tolerance was .15". This year they couldnt give me a straight answer. How much cheaper are they anyways? Ide rather get aluminum for the money and mot plastic if the price is relatively similar but thats just me.

[Andrew H]

We don't run closed profiles here, in fact, we only have 1 cnc so all we run here are metals and then the bench does polish and clean up. I've switched over to running green plastic ones and so far I've been really happy. I don't want to get into one is better than the other because I love blick and think they put out killer products, I haven't sold my old ones and probably won't. I'm sure if we had 4 cnc's and I was running a closed profile and polishing, I'd probably be seeing these issues.

so.....

This topic has got me quite intrigued. Klint, is there any way you can you do the glass, or a plate of steel that you know is the same thickness throughout? I'm not saying your wrong or your method is incorrect. I'd actually venture to say that it will help prove your point anymore. I just don't have that fancy dancy contraption you got there to do my own test. I feel like this test will put this issue to bed for whoever wonders the same thing as Andy and I.

The Andy's here just want to see more haha


Just an fyi Klint, those custom mini vertical BS pods you made me are the bomb digity. You should really consider putting them in your line up. I've even switched to a venturi vacuum set up instead of the harbor freight temporary one I had set up haha and nothing is slipping (we do step cut though every half inch. Still sucking like a pro and slicing the side splashes down perfectly.

[Amroczka]

What does it matter if you run open or closed profiles? If the surface it not plane it will show on either

[jrupert3]

Did I miss the BVC (Alex's) response to the .04 tolerance??

I run all Blick Pods, because BVC doesn’t make our pod height. I would be interested in testing and trying them out.

I love the idea of a plastic pod that is easily repairable. My biggest issue with Blick is the cost to ship back to them to get repaired. I find myself just buying new ones and have a graveyard of damaged / worn pods.

BUT

If tolerances aren't there, then it's a non-issue. Blick makes a quality, consistent & reliable product. Having a light weight, repairable POD is a want.. having a consistent quality product is a need.

[Alex DiPietro]

Did I miss the BVC (Alex's) response to the .04 tolerance??

I run all Blick Pods, because BVC doesn’t make our pod height. I would be interested in testing and trying them out.

I love the idea of a plastic pod that is easily repairable. My biggest issue with Blick is the cost to ship back to them to get repaired. I find myself just buying new ones and have a graveyard of damaged / worn pods.

BUT

If tolerances aren't there, then it's a non-issue. Blick makes a quality, consistent & reliable product. Having a light weight, repairable POD is a want.. having a consistent quality product is a need.
[

They now make Breton height pods. I'm going to try them. We can't seem to mill small parts without something moving. Any time we have sink center seam, or small vanity we lose time because something slips on the pods.

[Andrew H]

What does it matter if you run open or closed profiles? If the surface it not plane it will show on either
[

I don't know brother since I don't run closed. You are correct it will show on either. I was just thinking guys that run closed are probably also polishing and looking for more of a finished product coming off their machines. We're not set up that way so I don't see it. That's all I was saying. My parts coming off the cnc need to be taken up to polish by hand so my guys at the bench are probably just dialing it in instead of complaining to me.

Any time we have sink center seam, or small vanity we lose time because something slips on the pods.
[

We use the clamps from blick on sink necks. I'm assuming your cutting your sinks out on the router. You may have to move the clamps during the cycle from the outside edge during he sink cut, then inside the bowl during the edge rout.

[faster]

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