Please help! Seam placed down center of peninsula AND center of sink!

[csinku2]

Please help!

My husband and I have been going thru a nightmare of a kitchen remodel since July. We thought we were almost done. Our quartz countertop template was last Monday 11/9. We did a lot of research ahead of template with respect to seam placement, edge profile, overhang distance, etc. During template, we asked all the right questions. We were told it was a 1 seam job and the seam would be located to the left of the sink cutout. We were ok with that. There was never any design or contract supplied to sign of on. Delivery/install date was this past Monday 11/16. When the installers showed up, there were 2 seams - 1 down the center of the peninsula (the main focal point of our open concept kitchen) and a second seam down the center of the sink. We were extremely unhappy because this was never communicated with us prior to fabrication. We did not accept delivery and had them take the countertop back. After speaking with the fabrication company and the distributor who facilitated the purchase, we were given the run around as to why they placed the seams where they did. First, we were told the seam had to be at the sink because it was a transportation liability if not. That is not true. Next we were told there absolutely could not be a seam within 12" of rounded corner randius. That is also false. Lastly, we were told the seam placement was decided on because it makes the design most aesthetically pleasing. Also false. The fabricator has indicated that they have provided a quality top and did nothing wrong. He also said the templater never talked about seam placement because they are trained/forbidden from doing so. Completely false because it was our number one concern during template!!! Now, the fabricator says we either accept the countertops as is or we are responsible for paying for refabrication. We will NOT live with the botched seam placement. We were required to pay in full back in June, so we are out 100% of our money with nothing to show. What is really happening here is that the fabricator accepted payment for our job without considering seam placement, which would require 2 full slabs if done correctly. He pieced together the template using remnants and now refuses to show us the slab layout. He claims he used 2 full slabs, but we know that is false! We did NOT invest several thousand dollars to have our job pieced together with remnants using unnecessary seams that were NOT approved! Please help! What are our options? Quartz is Corian Quartz in Ashen Gray.

[steven nenzel]

Clearly it was a material issue and they did not have two slabs. We do our best to avoid seams on peninsulas and this could have easily been accomplished with two slabs (but not one).

Without anything in writing you don't have much choice. If the seam is done well it should not be that noticeable.

FYI, I do not allow my templators to determine seam locations with customers. However, we provide CAD drawings to customers that show the seam locations for their approval.

This is a good lesson, never pay 100% up front for construction services. Is this even allowed by law in your state?

[steven nenzel]

Clearly it was a material issue and they did not have two slabs. We do our best to avoid seams on peninsulas and this could have easily been accomplished with two slabs (but not one).

Without anything in writing you don't have much choice. If the seam is done well it should not be that noticeable.

FYI, I do not allow my templators to determine seam locations with customers. However, we provide CAD drawings to customers that show the seam locations for their approval.

This is a good lesson, never pay 100% up front for construction services. Is this even allowed by law in your state?

[Andy Ross]

My guess is they added a seam to fit it in one slab. As long as the seams are prepped and glued properly, they should almost disappear. We don't let customers be involved with the seam placement or layout at all. No exceptions. There are way more factors involved than what you think you know about fabricating countertops...some of it shop specific and machine related. You hired the company for their expertise, so just let them do the job the best way they know how. This job is exactly why sqft pricing doesn't make sense. People want a two slab job but are only willing to pay for sqft pricing.

We likely would have caught this doing an estimate and offered the one slab price and the two slab price and let the customer decide on which direction they wanted to go. Almost always it ends up as a one slab job.

[Dave.Scott]

We never leave seam placement up to the client. We never discuss seam placement at template. We never guarantee seam placement at anytime except at programming/layout. We offer alternatives to the client prior to fabrication if seams are of concern.

Please remember that I -- as the fabricator, have a financial interest in having as few seams as possible due to the time that it consumes at install. Install is my operation's bottleneck due to labor shortages. I want my installers doing an impeccable job while moving along at a brisk pace. Material cost is less than labor cost.

That said, from the picture and without knowing the length of the peninsula and the length of the sink run I cannot definitely say that these seams are uncalled for, however, my gut feeling is that they either had a slab issue (something broke, bad material match or insufficient material on hand) or it was an attempt to squeeze it out of one less slab by using a remnant is the culprit.

If this was done by a low bidder or someone that touts a low square foot price, coupled with the need for 100% deposit I'd say you chose the wrong fabricator.

You can get it cheap or you can get it good. You can't get both.

[Kowboy]

csinku2:

You could eliminate the front seam at the sink with the installation of an apron front sink. It appears that you have a 36" sink base cabinet. If so, and the distance from the cabinet front to the rear of the cutout isn't more than about 18 1/2", your fabricator could retrofit an Elkay Quartz Luxe sink:

IMG_0323 copy.jpg (299.27KiB)Viewed 3431 times

If that distance is more than 18 1/2", but less than 20", you can retrofit an Elkay Quartz Luxe Ferguson model:

IMG_0516.jpeg (286.05KiB)Viewed 3431 times

Both are superior to whatever you had chosen previously. If you prefer stainless steel, Kohler 3943 will retrofit beautifully; all without having to remove the tops from the cabinets:

IMG_0113 (1) copy.jpg (221.16KiB)Viewed 3431 times

If you don't want to see any seam in front of the faucet, I design, build, and install 14 gauge beauties. I can ship:

IMG_0078.jpeg (294.89KiB)Viewed 3431 times

[mark s]

Some interesting differences of approach to discussing seam placement with customers.

"He also said the templater never talked about seam placement because they are trained/forbidden from doing so."

This is the opposite of what we do. The measurer has slab sizes on his paperwork so he is able to determine seam locations as he does the measure and communicate those locations to the customer. most of the time the seam locations are determined during the bidding process since it can be relatively straight forward.

In our bids it is common to have a description like "U shaped countertop with X x X "peninsula ( 2 or 3 pieces)." If possible we'd make a countertop like that with only one seam but often can't determine if thats possible without seeing the access available at the job site. the measurer discusses the seams at the measure with the customer and can explain the logic behind the seam locations.

The only problems we find with our process are that 1. occasionally the measurer will fail to adhere to the number of seams specified in the bid and make it necessary to purchase additional material. Since we now do the vast majority of our jobs from inventory this problem has become rare or ...

2. the customer agrees to the seam placement at the measure and then somehow decides they don't like the seam location(s) after we install and thinks we have to do it over. (I hate when that happens.)

mark s.

[Mitch@ASW]

Some interesting differences of approach to discussing seam placement with customers.

"He also said the templater never talked about seam placement because they are trained/forbidden from doing so."

This is the opposite of what we do. The measurer has slab sizes on his paperwork so he is able to determine seam locations as he does the measure and communicate those locations to the customer. most of the time the seam locations are determined during the bidding process since it can be relatively straight forward.

In our bids it is common to have a description like "U shaped countertop with X x X "peninsula ( 2 or 3 pieces)." If possible we'd make a countertop like that with only one seam but often can't determine if thats possible without seeing the access available at the job site. the measurer discusses the seams at the measure with the customer and can explain the logic behind the seam locations.

The only problems we find with our process are that 1. occasionally the measurer will fail to adhere to the number of seams specified in the bid and make it necessary to purchase additional material. Since we now do the vast majority of our jobs from inventory this problem has become rare or ...

2. the customer agrees to the seam placement at the measure and then somehow decides they don't like the seam location(s) after we install and thinks we have to do it over. (I hate when that happens.)

mark s.
[

^^^ This. I handle 98% of our templating and when a seam is required, I ALWAYS tell the customer where I believe it/they should go (and never at the sink). Usually this is determined during the bidding process, but without all of the info sometimes I make a judgement call on site to change it.

[Israel]

We collect 100% up front on every job because of convenience for everyone involved and it leads to a better customer experience. It is quite common practice to collect up front for any custom product. We also have a reputation that allows for this. We never cut any job without the customer's approval of layout. We would never place seams where they are located on this job. This looks like the lowest bidder type of work. If they did not communicate seam placement with you then they should replace and remedy IMHO.