New Technology! CMS Beer Jet, leaked video!

[Stone Dude]

The SFA Mega Workshop revealed some new technology last week, in the form of a beer-pouring CNC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMBlx61v5DM

[john b]

And CMS wants to charge me 800 dollars a day plus expences to train someone that really needs help, what a shame.

[scott m]

John, I don't think that is fair. I do not know you or your situation, but my assumption is that you bought a used CMS machine from somebody. Now you want CMS to come train you. The thing is that with a new CNC they have in the purchase price the cost of sending someone out to set it up, train you, support you, etc.......When the first owner got it, he got all that and paid for it. Why should CMS come train you for free as well. The $800 a day is about the going rate for a technician to come with any company. They have to make money too, and this is one of the ways they do it. You have to realize that a lot of a machine companies revenue comes from service. Especially right now when it is very hard to find buyers for new machines. There are of course plenty of other avenues for getting setup and on this forum you will find a number of people who can help you. That is what the SFA is all about. I just wanted to jump in because CMS is a great supporter of the SFA and this practice is really no different from any other company. My suggestion is to make good friends with them and get setup for technical help however their system works, cause pretty soon the fact that your machine is down and you can't produce will far outweigh the $5000 or so it make take to get it up and running......BTW I have a half dozen like new cones for your machine if you are interested in them let me know.....

[john b]

Hey Scott,
I"m all for companies making money, obviously, the charges should be in line with the state of this economy. I imagine all fabricators out there are crunching numbers to get contracts. I have had conversations with CMS and their numbers are "as is". I am interested in your cones as I am in the process of purchasing all parts for the machine. By the way, I believe I purchased this machine from your friend in Tampa. If is this possible, I'm missing the transformer and wonder if you can help me obtain this. Let me know and I will provide you with my contact info.
John

[Stone Dude]

I wouldn't take my car to a technician, or go to a doctor that was discounting their prices. It costs what it costs. Sue it may hurt the wallet, but what are you going to do? They spent a lot of money getting their machines there and setting them up. Im not really sure what their machine pouring beer has to do with the prices they charge for setup?

I posted this video in good humor, not for people to take shots at one of our sponsors. $800 a day plues expenses is actually a pretty decent price, especially if he takes the time he needs each day. Thats $100 an hour for an 8 hour day, I highly doubt the techs call it quits at 8 hours if there is more to do. $100 an hour aint that much, regardless if its programming or something else.

[Aladd1n]

I wouldn't take my car to a technician, or go to a doctor that was discounting their prices. It costs what it costs. Sue it may hurt the wallet, but what are you going to do? They spent a lot of money getting their machines there and setting them up. Im not really sure what their machine pouring beer has to do with the prices they charge for setup?

I posted this video in good humor, not for people to take shots at one of our sponsors. $800 a day plues expenses is actually a pretty decent price, especially if he takes the time he needs each day. Thats $100 an hour for an 8 hour day, I highly doubt the techs call it quits at 8 hours if there is more to do. $100 an hour aint that much, regardless if its programming or something else.

Agreed. When I bought a used Marmo 522 I paid 2800 for Marmo to come to my shop, train me, inspect the machine and help me set it up properly.

Two guys drove down from Michigan and spent about 8 hours at my place.

Wasnt easy to stroke that check but well worth it in my opinion.

[Dan R.]

What if a retail client only had $x to spend and it was 50% of your cost, would you consider the job? Even in these economic conditions? I highly doubt it. The beer pouring was a mere demonstration of the intricacy of control of their machine. I doubt any service money was spent on this project, no animals were hared either.
It simply costs ore to do things correctly, you get to choose if the cost is now (training) or later (low productivity).

[Rick George]

CMS is a great sponsor and made an incredible impression on everyone at the show!! And not just for there unbelievable beer jet but for there recently released technology! Nice going CMS!!!

[CustomMarbleGraniteToo]

John B

Please fill in your profile info, it is nice to know who we are talking to.

Thanks.

[Burkie]

Try paying per hour when they are sitting on the plane for 4 to 5hours.

Every year plane fare, hotel and time for 2 days is about $5 to 6000 in service call for me. BUT the machine is kept in good condition and I consider this insurance. The concept here is that TIME is a cost and from a service perspective needs to be paid for ....like the same way you charge for labour on your countertops. The issue I have is the price per hour for the travel time. In my opinion $100 per hour or $800 is not unreasonable. Is your time worth less than this?

Regards

[Matt Lansing]

If you think $800 a day is too much then you can fly to their place for the training at their facility. Or does that cost too much as well?

Just because you bought a used machine cheap, doesn't mean that running and owning a cnc is a cheap endeavor. They are sophisticated machinery that take money to operate. Get that in your head now or you are going to be in for a lot of disappointment.

[Anna Almonte]

Well said Matt!! CMS was the Bomb at the show!!! They went out of their way to make me (A wife) feel comfortable and confident with our purchase. I only wished I could have pulled up a chair and sit and watch that Baby go. I thank the whole CMS crew you did an amazing job with thinking outside the box. I hope this makes sense as I am still re cooperating from this Awesome event! Good time all around.

[Antonio Almonte]

Yup, yup and yup!

I charge 120 per hour per man (and I always send two people) to fix and repair other fabricators work in our area. I believe we are worth it and I believe what CMS is charging is worth it as well.

John, that was not fair as they are in business to try and make some money as well.

If I had made a marble dining room table for a customer and they had sold it after a few years of use to someone (complete with etches and chips etc), should I completely restore the marble table for free for the new owner?

[StevePaul]

Anna, thanks for posting the beer link...and I can assure you that there was plenty of conversation on the way home about what kind of fun we'll have next time !!! I sure hope to be able to visit your shop this summer too!!!

I think it was Dustin that said: "There's always some bad s%#@ gonna happen when Antonio wears the Fedora..."

John B,

First off, thanks for purchasing a CMS machine! We want to let everyone know that our service department will stand behind our machinery 100% whether it is new or used and especially when there is a pitcher to refill...

Thanks everyone for your comments...another SFA strength. I had a chat with Jeff Price before piping in and he wanted me to note that the quote included travel, a discounted hourly rate and that there would be no markup on expenses... I hope you can understand that we're trying to work with you and gave you a generous offer.

As stated earlier there are a couple of pieces of the puzzle that can be arranged to determine your best bang for the buck. Training at CMS, near Grand Rapids, MI for software is always available. We can include some machine time if there is one running in our showroom. If you don't need someone immediately, Jasmine will often try to arrange other work in the area to distribute expenses.

In your case, having a tech on site is going to be invaluable. You'll be able to interact with both the software and machine through each tool set-up and process. Our guys will help with the peripherals to make sure that every aspect of the machine is functioning properly and tailored to your operation.

New machines require a week of install, a week of software training and 1-2 weeks of training on site... so if you're hoping to concentrate it all into a few days, get some rest, turn off the phone, lock the door and take a smart pill, there's a lot to learn. Take good notes and/or have a video camera handy to capture training info and examples.

BTW: Any time you're in a yank, have a question, a complaint, a compliment or just want to blow off some steam, give your area sales manager a call.. that's our job. We work (beg, plead, barter, threaten and negotiate) with the service department every day to get stuff done for our customers...

All that said, I'm still grinning about the workshop... it was great to finally meet so many SFA members... you folks are the best. I'll second all the thanks and kudos. The SFA leadership worked their tails off before, during and after (and in some cases rock and rolled all night ) to make things work out right. The SFA is forging an entirely new type of community based on respect, (disrespect ) support, information, advise, cooperation and camaraderie between its members and among its sponsors.

The more the workshops are supported by SFA members... the more sponsors can contribute towards making our products and people available...

OK, I'm done . Back to the beer:

[Anna Almonte]

Steve, Cameron posted the link and I have watched it a few times since being at home. again, the CMS crew was top notch. Thank you so very much.

[Brian_Stone]

I can assure you that there was plenty of conversation on the way home about what kind of fun we'll have next time !!!

You do have all those nice tool holders in the back that would probably be perfect for holding different bottles of booze and mixers.

[t-mobile]

Steve, it was nice meeting you and kicking everyones butt in pool together

CMS is a great company with great machines and awesome people!

John B, the numbers you have been given sound like a great deal! The service and knowledge you will recieve from these top notch guys will most certainly be worth it!

Oh, and the beer pouring was wicked cool! I cant wait to go to antonios shop to play with the new unimax!

[Burkie]

John,

What Steve said about the learning times. A new (or used) CNC is not a 2 day learning process. You need the time frame given to learn the basics. After they are gone then you will start learning your machine. Dont expect that it is going to be a quick slam dunk where in 2 days you are going to be pumping parts. Plan for 3 to 6 months before you are cranking and feel comfortable. The deal that they are giving you from what I can see just from the comments here I would recommend not making noise.

Back to thread, the machine looks awesome. The only beer it spilled was Cevin's. It appeared that it was programmed to pour a pitcher when the machine saw Cevin coming not a glass. Thus it appeared to be Cevin's fault for bringing the wrong "piece" for production. Thus Operator error not machine error.

T, Winterpeg is lovely in January to April slightly more balmy than Texas. Antonio I probably wont be able to make it until June or July.

Antonio and Anna best of luck with your new Toy. Say hi to the real CNC's for me.

Regards

[Antonio Almonte]

John,

What Steve said about the learning times. A new (or used) CNC is not a 2 day learning process. You need the time frame given to learn the basics. After they are gone then you will start learning your machine. Dont expect that it is going to be a quick slam dunk where in 2 days you are going to be pumping parts. Plan for 3 to 6 months before you are cranking and feel comfortable. The deal that they are giving you from what I can see just from the comments here I would recommend not making noise.

Back to thread, the machine looks awesome. The only beer it spilled was Cevin's. It appeared that it was programmed to pour a pitcher when the machine saw Cevin coming not a glass. Thus it appeared to be Cevin's fault for bringing the wrong "piece" for production. Thus Operator error not machine error.

T, Winterpeg is lovely in January to April slightly more balmy than Texas. Antonio I probably wont be able to make it until June or July.

Antonio and Anna best of luck with your new Toy. Say hi to the real CNC's for me.

Regards

Yea T, you might want to wait until June /July to come up here unless you have some snow shoes and a toque. It is a little colder than Alabama but if you can tough it out, come on up.

Burkie, now I can say I have two cnc's. One pours beer and the other one drinks it.

[t-mobile]

I am coming as soon as you get it! BUT, I do not plan on doing ANYTHING outdoors! My country arse will have ALOT of layers on

[Nick]

I wouldn't take my car to a technician, or go to a doctor that was discounting their prices. It costs what it costs. Sue it may hurt the wallet, but what are you going to do? They spent a lot of money getting their machines there and setting them up. Im not really sure what their machine pouring beer has to do with the prices they charge for setup?

I posted this video in good humor, not for people to take shots at one of our sponsors. $800 a day plues expenses is actually a pretty decent price, especially if he takes the time he needs each day. Thats $100 an hour for an 8 hour day, I highly doubt the techs call it quits at 8 hours if there is more to do. $100 an hour aint that much, regardless if its programming or something else.

Agreed.

John, I would trust Aladdin on this one. When you push an 04 Porsche with a buck 20 on the odometer you just can't roll up to any redneck shop and expect to have months of trouble free flossin. You get it done right so your rollin hard when you get racially profiled by Barney Fife as a Mexican drug runner. You can't be stuck on the side of the highway in "the ville", you need to know that bad boy is going to fire up to safely take you someplace with more ethnicity


Seriously dude, $800 a day???????? Plus airfare and hotel and that is straight standard. I paid that when I trained/serviced up my Used CNC. You get the deal when you get it, then you maximize your deal by having an open checkbook to be able to utilize it. Bad attitude from the start, only going to lead to you not making the most of the machine.



CMS was AWESOME at the show and that pod technology is SWEET!

[dustinbraudway]

John B

If you can swing Marty or Benton to hook up your machine do so! They are top notch guys! Marty is a little high strung but that is why I liked the cracker!

[dan k.]

$800 a day is a fair price. Make sure the Tech produces. You need to have high expectations and they need to deliver. If they don't , escalate to management immediately. I have had some good and bad experiences with techs.

No free passes, even if they are a Sponsor. Maybe move this part of the thread to the Members lounge.

[t-mobile]

No need to move the thread. Everyone agrees, except for john b..... which by the way needs to fill in his profile!

bottom line is: everyone has to make a living! And the prices quoted are well within reason!

[Aladd1n]

I think it was Dustin that said: "There's always some bad s%#@ gonna happen when Antonio wears the Fedora..."

Hey, it was me who said that