Gun control? We need medication control!

[Curtis R. Marburger]

When I here of these atrocities the first question that comes to my mind "I wonder what Mind altering Psyke medications they were exposed too "

http://www.cchrint.org/school-shooters/

[Omni Cubed Larry]

Yep!
I believe they are "barking up the wrong tree", and they probably know it, but I also believe that they use situations like this to push their gun agenda. They were politicking for gun control while the bodies were still laying there... talk about insensitive! They really need to set their agenda aside and look deeper into the cause... because everyone knows (whether they admit or not) guns are NOT the cause.

Here is the article from Reuters where Feinstein is "jumping the gun" (pun intended) thinking that major gun control will solve the problem and protect our children. There are many good comments at the bottom of this page that gives me hope that there are still some common sense people out there.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/ ... DH20121216

Reuters re-released the article a day later (with no changes), so all the comments won't show up (unless you find the old outdated original article). Interesting.

[Miles]

I definitely don't want to get into the politics of this. This is the most horrific thing I have ever seen.

What I don't understand is how he accessed these weapons. I heard in an interview with a former babysitter that his mom was so concerned about him that she told the babysitter not to even leave him alone to go to the bathroom, and this was when this guy was about 11 years old. Friends of the mom say that she had said he was a real problem to deal with recently.

So how on earth does this single mom have an AR15 and two 9mm in a place that he could access them? I surely don't know the details on how he did, but if I struggled as much as she seamed to with this son I wouldn't have the weapons in the house, but I sure would have them under lock and key. And failure to do so had some horrific consequences, apparently.

But, it's probably too early to jump to that conclusion. And I hate to blame the deceased. Such a tragedy.

[Dan R.]

In Illinois,guns must be kept locked up. Unfortunately, the head of the household should be in charge of the household. Dead or not, does not dissuade her responsibility. The tragedy is everyone that was killed due to her negligence and through no fault of their own. I am sure there will be millions spent to put a motive or reasoning to this travesty, to absolutely no one's benefit. They should spend those investigative dollars on better mental health.

[Matt Lansing]

There are some reports out there that she was a gun collector herself and that she used to take her two boys target shooting at the local range.

Makes you wonder about taking a mentally unstable individual and teaching him about guns and then leaving them unlocked.

[Dan R.]

That is not responsible gun ownership by any measure, IMO. There will be many stories coming out. No matter the motive, it will remain senseless, with no viable excuse.

[Curtis R. Marburger]

the only gun control i would add is demonstrate what plan to keeping weapons locked up

[politefab]

the real reason for the second amendment was so that the citizens could protect theselves from tyranny so that we can as citizens protect our selves from the abuse of power so often imposed by governments. The problem is not guns, it never was and never will be. To fix the problem the actual problem needs to be addressed. Take Russia for instance it has a smaller population than the US has half the guns as the US and a higher murder rate than the US. Recently in china 22 students were stabbed. in the Oklahoma city bombing 19 kids were killed and no guns were used. We need to stop blaming inanimate objects like guns and start to talk about the real problems.. like the fact that an irresponsible mother that knew her son was loopy and kept guns in the house. We should address responsibly.. accountability.. and look at our selves as having the power to change the mind set of the people in this country by not blaming hunks of steel and blaming the breathing living humans. Alcohol kills more people every year than guns. should we ban alcohol? Should we take away the rights of the many responsible ones because of the few irresponsible ones.. here is an interesting read http://www.guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html...its time to solve the problem and stop blaming guns. for less than the price of that bushmaster he used in the school he could have built a bomb that could have killed 168 like Oklahoma. That stuff is still easier to get than a gun. you can buy it in a pharmacy.. there was also the mall shooting this past week end. the media made it sound as though the police saved the day after 2 people were killed in a mall in Colorado.. later it turned out that a 22 year old man with a concealed carry licence is the one that stopped the shooter well before the cops were even on scene.. if not for the responsible 22 year old more would have died..lets punish the millions of responsible people so that the few thousand that are not cant do this.. the #1 tool to commit murder in america is a baseball bat.. should we stop playing base ball?

sorry for the rant I'm just afraid that the problem will not even get worked on.. it will be burred under political agendas and that is sad.

[politefab]

sorry about the chart being cut off. its from the FBI and the last one on the list for deaths is fire arms the #1 weapon used to commit murder is a base ball bat

[Dan R.]

It was initially reported by police on the scene that the rifle was left in the back seat of his car and was not used in the school shootings. He used 2 pistols in the school. Pistols he could have legally purchased himself.

Speaking of baseball bats, as a kid, I heard stories of a guy whose nickname was joe Batters. He later became known as the Big Tuna. Some interesting reading, if one is so inclined.

[JOHN_T]

sorry but i find it hard to belive #1 murder weapon is a baseball bat I read about murders everyday and not one baseball bat that i can remeber and i am right outside of philly all guns and knives is all i ever see . ill look it up .

[szw21]

No surprise but firearms are the No 1 murder weapon according to the FBI.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr ... rtbl07.xls

[Dan R.]

Eli's FBI chart states that baseball bats are the number 1 weapon in violent crimes, not murders, violent crimes.

[szw21]

Eli's FBI chart states that baseball bats are the number 1 weapon in violent crimes, not murders, violent crimes.

Sorry I only read Eli's post which says murder.

Well okay I did a bit of further research on the subject on the FBI website. Murder is classified as Violent crime as is auto theft and Arson. Not surprisingly firearms don't feature in Arson (who starts a fire with a gun) Firearms are top of the list of robbery and murder and not so for assault. Again I think it just shows people are using the right thing for the right job - can you effectively use a handgun to assault someone?

[Dan R.]

You can assault someone with or without a weapon, gun or not.

[Joshua Hopkins]

Their is way more crimes and murders prevented because good guys have guns than people killed by guns every year. I will get the information.

[topshop]

The reports I heard said that he carried and used the bushmaster on his victims. He also had 2 handguns on him - one of which (a 10mm) he killed himself with. A shotgun was in the car.

I have not heard any reports on if the guns were locked up or not but have heard that she took him shooting often. All the guns were registered to her. How that neglegent woman was allowed to register and purchase those guns with that mentally ill kid in the house is beyond me.

When my wife and I got our permits to carry a few years ago here in CT we had to take a 8 hour class on gun safety, we got checked out for an arrest record, and had to sit down with our resident state trooper for a personal interview. The trooper grilled us on how we were going to store, carry, and use the guns. He asked us who else lived with us and he had to sign off on our applications before we could even go to the state office to finalize the permits and get finger printed - that was the first set of finger prints anyone ever took from me. It was a several month pita process. You cannot buy a handgun in CT legally without a permit. Hell, the state even has a bullet from each handgun I own on file. Long guns in CT are a different story and I don't own any so I am not sure what the restrictions are to buying one.

[Curtis R. Marburger]

"The bulk of American media is afraid to go after psychiatric drugs as a cause of violence. This fear stems, in part, from the sure knowledge that expert attack dogs are waiting in the wings, funded by big-time pharmaceutical companies."


http://www.cchrint.org/tag/psychiatric-drugs/

[Dan R.]

One of the first reports by law enforcement was that the Bushmaster was left in the backseat of the killer's car. It doesn't really matter at this point. The mother was negligent and she cannot be held accountable. End of story, he chose the path of least resistance, same that all lazy criminals choose. No accountability, no respect, no morals, is more the issue than guns, IMO.

[politefab]

Now they are trying to blame video games...The problem is that every one rushes to blame guns, video games, T.V., movies...any thing but what should be blamed. This is going to lead to the real problem being lost in the barrage of finger pointing and blame games. Instead of putting accountability where it belongs. (interesting read http://www.pbs.org/kcts/videogamerevolu ... html)..the problems with the current generation and PAST! generations falls on the shoulders of the ROLE MODELS that they look to !

Here is a strange and new idea!! how about we hold people responsible. We went from a time wen our actions had conciseness..Like if you talked back to your parent you got your A$$ beat to If your nice and clean your room ill buy you a video game! WHAT seriously WHAT!!!! You want to fix the problem bring accountability back into the picture. Each generation is a product of the previous generation we need look no further than our selves to see the problem .. DO you talk to your kids? Give them a moral compass? Hold the accountable? Expect better of them? did you abandon them? Is there baby sitter An x-box? Is a new car or a bigger house more important than extra time with your kids?

It is easier to blame something that cant fight back like a game or a gun.. We have to do whats hard and look at us as people , role models, parents, teachers, and as a society as a whole..

The bad element will ALWAYS! be there and if a 200lb man breaks into my home while I'm at work! I want my wife to be able to defend her self.

THIS IS A REAL GOOD READ!!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

[dan k.]

It's a typical silly liberal tenant. Gun control saves lives. The Government will save you from yourself and others.

President Obama promises to focus all the power of his Administration on making us safer from ourselves. Blah , blah , blah. The man has Attention deficit disorder. How about focusing on jobs. Are we ever going to see a recovery under this man?

p.s. - If all the Teachers were packing, would we have lost so many lives?

[politefab]

Teachers packing heat is a bad idea! there is way to much liability so far this year in our area one teacher has been let go for choking a kid and another reprimanded for throwing a stapler across the room. Teaching is already a high stress job. A decision in the heat of the moment could go south quick.... god forbid a student get a hold of a teachers gun or an accidental discharge. At my daughter high school the is always a state trooper on campus. I believe that is the way to go and may be the principle

[Miles]

I have hesitated posting because I don't want to get into a gun debate. I did that on facebook a while back and I know how passionate people are about their guns. I just want to hear an honest answer from 2nd amendment proponents.

What is the real purpose of the Bushmaster and AR15 style weapons? Would it really be a blow to the 2nd amendment if they weren't allowed to be sold in department stores and on-line with 30 round clips and 200 round drums?

That's not really gun control to me. That's just common sense.

[Dan R.]

The 2nd amendment was meant to be a stop gap against tyranny, as I understand it. When the 2nd amendment was enacted, there was no such thing a sport shooting. Guns were tools used for gathering food and protection. This idea that the framers never meant to have guns used as defensive weapons is pure folly.

Today, this type of weapon is used in popular shooting matches, as well as practical daily uses. Many farmers and ranchers use a similar gun to protect their livestock from predators. Both these uses require multiple shots in rapid succession.

If were sporting use only, one could argue quite convincingly that a single shot black powder firearm should be sufficient. It could, conceivably satisfy the sport and effectively disarm the public, for more government comfort. This is a bad idea. there are 300,000,000 guns in America. No guns will never be an option. During the last ban, no guns were turned in, they were no longer imported or available. But they were openly (& legally traded) during the ban.

The last ban identified an assault weapon as having 2 of the the five characteristics:
1. folding stock (added to conceal ability)
2. bayonet lug (used to secure a bayonet to the rifle)
3. pistol grip (better control of the gun)
4. higher capacity than 5 rounds in the magazine (more ammo)
5. flash suppressor (no bearing whatsoever on the weapon's operation)

If a weapon had 2 of these 5 traits they were on the ban list. So even the THAT BAN did not outlaw high capacity magazines, as they were still legal if all of the other 4 characteristics were absent. The rifle used in CT shooting had a pistol grip and a high capacity magazine. The pistol grip could easily be modified to comply. Under the previous ban, that rifle could be sold with a 5 round magazine (current California law) and be completely legal. Magazines are separate from the gun, so many companies make replacement magazines that are currently available. Not to mention the glut of surplus military magazines available, very cheap.

The last ban did not reduce the number of weapons, it did not make them illegal to own, it did not make them illegal to buy existing guns in a banned format. It only made all guns more expensive. When guns become more expensive, the average person has the ability to buy less guns or no guns. Criminals will buy guns, no matter the price, as they are integral to their criminal success.

During the last ban high capacity magazines were readily available, they just tripled in price. guns doubled in price. A new ban will have similar effects. A ban is a way for politicians to look like they are accomplishing something, when really nothing has materially changed. Kind of like running in place.

The tragedy is definitively real, but is it any less devastating if he used a bomb or a knife or drove his car through the recess yard? The problem is not the tool, it is the user. We have existing laws designed to protect us that are at the mercy of the intent of the perpetrator. It is easy and comforting to lash out, as it makes us feel better. I am angry at his mother for e=several things, even though she is dead, she was the first line of defense for protecting society from her son and she failed miserably. She is dead, so the prevailing feeling is that she is a victim too. Not in my book, she refused to heed any signs of and obviously failed in securing her weapons, thus causing this tragedy.

The debate should be responsibility, respect and accountability. This should be about making better people, not taking something away from good people so others can feel a false sense of security, because the government says so. The government does not care about any citizen, they care about the welfare of the politicians. Any benefit that occurs fro a private citizen is a happy accident during a money/power grab by government officials.

We should be talking about banning Congress and starting over.

[Miles]

I appreciate the answer Dan and all points seem valid. I don't think anyone would propose a complete gun ban. It's just that up until this point, no restrictions are acceptable to people on one side, seemingly. I was encouraged by the tone the spokesman for the NRA took the other day.

There is a line drawn somewhere between what's acceptable and what's not. Fully automatic weapons are not allowed to be sold, as I understand it. Convicted Felons can't buy a gun legally in some places, as I understand it. So there are restrictions.

Considering more restrictions does not necessarily mean that we need to do away with the 2nd amendment.