Debt limit explained

[Jeff H.]

This should get the point across, except for the people with their head in the sand!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li0no7O9zmE

[Omni Cubed Larry]

Nice touch when the daughter is signing, the dad says "she has plenty of time to deal with this". THIS... is exactly what we as a country are doing to our children and grandchildren. Wake up people!

Thanks for posting.

[Miles]

That's a cute movie. But the problem is not the debt limit. The problem is the debt.

So what's the alternative? Default?

And I'm all for cutting FUTURE spending. Let's start with defense, since we spend more than the next 25 countries (most allies) combined. We can get the heck out of any wars we're in.

Oh, and in order not to borrow more money, we need to raise revenues (taxes) too! Where do we start?

If nobody ever does the hard work up front then raising the debt limit is a foregone conclusion.

[GuyboR]

Oh, and in order not to borrow more money, we need to raise revenues (taxes) too! Where do we start?

That is just the opposite of the way you run your own personal company. You actually made MORE money by LOWERING your "taxes" (sale price). You took care of the inequality by getting control of your costs (spending). Why do you look at the government in a different way.

Default....I may get lambasted for this, but I think default might be a good thing. FORCE THEM TO CONTROL SPENDING!!!! Just like when a banker quits lending you more and more money and forces you to take care of the spending problem.

[CustomMarbleGranite]

Amen Guy

[Dan R.]

X3 Guy!

Why curtail entitlements and make people responsible for their own well being?

[Jeff H.]

Okay, I'll take a shot. Let's address entitlements. There's something seriously wrong when a person re-produce and exist living off of the taxpayer indefinitely. You must give them an incentive to work and be responsible for themselves. I worked a few crap jobs and lived with a couple of guys in a run down apartment for a few years. Why, because I had no other option and I like to eat and be warm & dry at night.

So let's start here. All Illegal immigrants out, now! This will open up plenty of entry level jobs for the unemployed. Cut food stamps, housing, free phones, fake disability, cut workers comp back to 8 weeks, etc., etc.. Food stamps will only cover the basic foods needed to exist. When people get hungry and have no roof over their head, they have 2 choices. Straighten up and don't be a burden on society, or end up in prison. I'm fine with either option.

You can't have a system that allows for the abuse that's going on now. The safety net is supposed to be for those that can't help themselves. There's plenty of waste in other areas of government, but the entitlements are by far the biggest problem. Let's start there and then I'll listen to other ideas from the other side.

[Omni Cubed Larry]

..... But the problem is not the debt limit. The problem is the debt.....

I agree here. I'll explain. The problem is debt as Miles stated. The "potential for more debt" is not necessarily a problem.

I have debt (my house, my car, etc.) and I also have plenty of "potential for more debt" (ie. credit card companies are always knocking on my door), BUT I know how to live within my means. For someone who does not have the self control to live within their means (government), then the "potential for more debt" is VERY BAD. Handing another credit card to someone like that will inevitably create an even bigger problem once they max out that card.

Therefore, it all comes down to a spending problem. You, I, or the government should not be living near or at our credit limit and constantly maxing out credit cards and getting new credit cards! It is ludicrous, and someone will need to pay it all back plus interest.

[Miles]

Larry,

I agree with everything you just said.

Cut spending. Defense, whatever entitlements you can, quit getting into wars...

And then do what very other family has to do... Bring in enough money to cover the bills.

[Dan R.]

How about just spending the money you have?

No waning full sending reductions will ever occur with the thought that there can always be more to spend through more taxes.

If the cuts are done honestly, then no new taxes, except reductions would be needed.

Miles, nice liberal, double speak in your last sentence. I must have missed that portion of Larry's post.

[GuyboR]

And then do what very other family has to do... Bring in enough money to cover the bills.

So, if one of your employees came in and said I bought a new car, new house, got two girlfriends on the side and am living like a rock star....I need you to pay me 100k per year. Thanks, I'll expect a bigger check on Friday.

What would you do?

Give it to him?
Say sorry, can't do it. Go find a different job?
Tell him to sell the stuff he can't afford?


I think I want to go work for Miles. He's going to pay me enough money to cover all my bills...regardless of how much I spend.

[Miles]

Actually he would have to do what a lot of people have had to do... Get a second job. Get a part time job. Start cutting grass on the weekends. Make his wife go to work. Make his teenage kids go to work.

I doubt he would come to me and say " I can't pay my bills can you cut my pay?"

[Darryl Miller]

Actually he would have to do what a lot of people have had to do... Get a second job. Get a part time job. Start cutting grass on the weekends. Make his wife go to work. Make his teenage kids go to work.

I doubt he would come to me and say " I can't pay my bills can you cut my pay?"

I've tried to stay out of this. I respect all of you here. But Miles, really? How is the government going to get a "second job" to produce more income? Only by creating more taxes. Bad analogy. I have worked three jobs in the past like many people have done in order to take care of my family. But we didn't increase spending because of the extra money. We paid off bills and as we lowered our debt, I cut back to two jobs and eventually back to one. My wife is a stay at home mom (except for the substitute teaching she does occasionally) and we live within our means on what I bring home.

We both agree there is a lot of wasteful spending. We may not agree on where all of the cuts need to be made. Spending should be cut to fit in the available income the government has now. Then as the debt is paid off, taxes can be lowered. This is not rocket science. Raising the debt limit is the stupidest thing to do. But if it works, maybe we can all accept all the credit card offers we get. Max out all the cards and file bankruptcy.

[Miles]

Darryl,

It's the same analogy that Guy used. You can't relate the govt. debt to personal spending.

What's driving the debt is not current spending, its interest on past spending. The only way to get away from that is to default.

The biggest areas of current spending that can be cut are defense (which for some reason, nobody wants to consider) and entitlements. Entitlements, by definition, means that someone is entitled to that money. So the only way to change that is to take away that entitlement.

So we're talking about Medicare, medicaid, social security... you going to tell my mom that she can't have her social security that she paid into for 40 years? You going to take away veterans benefits, or disability, or medical treatment for poor kids?

Not saying you can't, but who's got the balls? Nobody on either side. They don't want to deal in specifics, they just want to shut down the govt. and default on our obligations.

Somebody sometime has got to actually do the heavy lifting.

[Dan R.]

80% of the farm bill is food stamps.

Maybe the US government can cut back on advertising in Mexico on techniques to collect US aid for foreigners.

Maybe we should make people responsible for themselves and their own actions/decisions.

Maybe we should incentivize people to do better with lower tax rates. To take more risks for more rewards, isn't that the American way that every immigrant came looking for? Now they just want freebies and our government is enabling this behavior.

Spending is spending, government, personal, business. When someone starts denying basic facts, they are a lost cause for change no matter their rhetoric. It appears some of us are lost in this respect.

[GuyboR]

Actually he would have to do what a lot of people have had to do... Get a second job.

So, for the government to get more money to pay for their spending, you say they should get a second job? Tax me two times? How about tax those that aren't getting taxed right now.....49% of the country. Or, is that second job to tax Mexicans and Canadians for the right to live next to us.

Or....how about they quit spending. Entitlements are my first choice, then wasted labor. How many of the furloughed "non-essential" employees really need to have that non-essential job.....ZERO. Cut all the way back to just providing the essentials that Washington needs to provide you and I.

[Miles]

Ok... quit paying social security and medicare and veteran benefits.

And don't raise any taxes, not even back to the levels they were before the Bush Tax cuts... back when we had surpluses.

And while your at it.. cut taxes more.

That should solve the problem.

[Dan R.]

Now, Miles is thinking right!!

[Darryl Miller]

Our two definitions of entitlements are polar opposite. Food stamps is a huge problem. Our government has created multiple generations that live solely on that program. Social Security is something we all have paid in to. Before you go cutting VA benefits and medicaid, quit sending money to other countries for nonsense reasons and get rid of the waste in our own budget. Everything else will fall in to place.

To quote you on this-"Somebody sometime has got to actually do the heavy lifting." I couldn't agree with you more. Let's start with all the welfare and food stamp receipients first. It's time they go to work like we do.

[GuyboR]

Let's start with all the welfare and food stamp receipients first.

May I suggest drug testing to qualify as a start?

[Ken Lago]

Let's start with all the welfare and food stamp receipients first.

May I suggest drug testing to qualify as a start?

Forget that, drug tests can be circumvented I think it's much better to have a weight limit, anybody weighing more than 125 pounds can take a hike, now that's healt care and cutting spending KISS

[Dan R.]

Ken, wod this pounds plan have an option for the users to purchase extra pounds, kind of like green credits? You know, for some of the bigger guys here?

At that threshold, I may need a few pounds allowance, even after a use a fake ID for the second 125 lbs.

[Miles]

Well, I looked it up so we could put things in perspective-

About 25% of the federal budget is spent on Medicare, Medicaid, etc.
22% is spent on social security
19% on defense spending
5% on welfare programs which includes about 2% of the federal budget on food stamps

So, I don't think the problem will be fixed by tightening up on the food stamps program. That's just an easy target, to blame the welfare queens.

To do heavy lifting you have to cut defense spending or take something away from constituents, which nobody in Washington is willing to do.

[Darryl Miller]

So where is the other 32% of the budget going? I'm all for making cuts in spending, but we need to see where all of it is going. Maybe we can look at the budget.......oh, wait......They didn't get around to that did they? Too busy with other stuff I guess.

[clhilde]

Well, I looked it up so we could put things in perspective-

About 25% of the federal budget is spent on Medicare, Medicaid, etc.
22% is spent on social security
19% on defense spending
5% on welfare programs which includes about 2% of the federal budget on food stamps

So, I don't think the problem will be fixed by tightening up on the food stamps program. That's just an easy target, to blame the welfare queens.

To do heavy lifting you have to cut defense spending or take something away from constituents, which nobody in Washington is willing to do.

This must have came from cnn or the gov website

We need a budget period!
This admin is not interested in a budget in stead they want to shove health care down everyone's throat.
Miles do you run your business with out a budget? How fast would you go under if you didnt?

That said where is our gov going?

Get real Dem or rep all aside we are heading to be owned by china if the gov dosent get a budget together, stop the wars in other countries and focus on the problems here