Running SASSO K600 with Park Equipment

[Paconianphysics]

So our shop is looking to produce 7 kitchens a day.

We purchased a SASSO K600 over 6 months ago to augment our Park Fusion 4045 single tilt table saw. However, the two plugins DO NOT get along with one another. So we have the SASSO on it’s own special computer. We run Slabsmith and have stop blocks that all match with the Fusion but not the SASSO. We’re working on making the stops match, that’s the easy problem. But if anyone has built custom stops we’d appreciate seeing what you did?

Our current way of operating is to program jobs a week to week and a half out from install. Cutting usually happens a day or two after programming. The problem is with the blade touch off on the SASSO. By the time the program hits the saw the blade diameter is worn and needs to be touched off again. This means re-programming and doing double work. A big ‘no no’ in LEAN manufacturing. Does anyone have a good work around? This is by far our biggest hurdle.

The next problem is that all of our estimators have gotten used to quoting material based on the tight nesting capabilities of the Fusion. Our plan was to throw one and two slab kitchens at the SASSO. But we’re having trouble getting the SASSO software to handle the tight nests. Or, we’re ending up using more material than what the client purchased. Ultimately, we’re either just programming the job on the Fusion. This has resulted in fewer than a kitchen a day getting cut on the SASSO. We really would like it to produce two to three kitchens a day.

Has anyone setup a manual blade cut function separate from the ‘cut parts’ function? With the time spent waiting for ‘cut parts’ and then editing every damn cut I could instead plot similar to doing a custom mill bit or CNC style. There’s so much back and forth involved in programming the SASSO that it takes 2 to 3 times as long to program as opposed to the Fusion. (Yes, I’ve actually timed it.)

Last but not least, when programming using the ‘Super Plunge’ it cuts into adjoining pieces even though the simulation shows it stopping short. Right now we just turn off this feature. But can anyone tell me how to fix it?

[Ken Lago]

If I was you I would ask Mark Lauzon to get you going in the right direction. This sounds like you needs a little more training and being open to change.

[Paconianphysics]

Yeah that angle has been approached without adequate results.

Quite frankly, we shouldn’t be changing everything to fit the odd ball piece of equipment. It should be the other way around. Besides changing a piece of equipment is a lot easier than changing 20 years of successful practices. So I’m looking for help changing the equipment.

Tech support from SASSO has been a total nightmare. The one of the previous times the saw software went down it took two weeks to get everything resolved. I had to reassign the icons for each function to their function myself because the tech didn’t verify their repair. Actually, I also fixed the network issue between the CAD station and the Saw myself because the first tech couldn’t identify the issue. The only thing the tech did was reassign a background licensing issue. But even then, I had no communication that the fix was complete to verify it worked. Even now, I get an error code ‘invalid call argument’ every time I use ‘Cut Parts’. I just ignore it because it doesn’t seem to affect anything.

Quite frankly, if I could flash Park’s Saber software to the saw I would. Not because the Saber is better but because then we could have three complete CAD stations for three programmers. Having a CAD station on quarantine has been a pain. If we open by accident a SASSO CAD Station file on a machine with Park Plugins it messes up the settings in very weird ways. The most minor being the customization of shortcuts and fonts. However, it will occasionally result in the Fusion plugin not working or improperly trying to plot saw cuts like on the SASSO.

So I’m on here now soliciting tech support ideas to try and tackle the problems the hard way because the easy way doesn’t work.

[Mark Lauzon]

Dear Paconianphysics,

Well....we tried to show you...to say otherwise is simply false. I was in your shop...three times.

The first time I went to your shop, before the purchase of your K600, I did a full demo of the software and attempted to assist you resolving an issue with your Park intensifier. Ironic. Why would I do that? Because I don't give a damn?

You have my digits (503-333-2485), our techs and I always return your calls....as my tech did today when I directed him to call after seeing this post. If you don't answer the phone when they call back...it makes things tough. When we show you how to resolve the issue and you insist in going other directions and it does not work out...when you assume that nesting for a saw-jet is the same as nesting for a five axis saw (the tools are not the same size)...when your IT networking is chaos and you expect a machine tech to resolve your networking issues, then you will be sad and I guess you guys will struggle. I am truly sorry for your self-inflicted wounds.

The only thing you will find here are dozens of customers that do it the way we taught them (and you) and are having success (just like the guy you called about the slabsmith that re-itterated exactly what I told you months ago) or folks that know nothing about how we are doing things (since they don't know the saw/the software/workflow)...which won't be much use to you.

I hope throwing me under the bus in a public forum helps resolve your issues and makes you feel better about yourselves. The good news is most folks here actually know me...and know full well I don't roll that way...ever. So...again, if you would like some additional training, workflow advice or whatever....you know how to get ahold of me. I am happy to assist. Again.

Last week I set up slabsmith, a K600 and alphacam with a shop on Maui....they could not be happier. Gimme a ring sometime and I will give you that customers number as well. This does not have to be hard.

Last week on Maui.png (1.15MiB)Viewed 1855 times

[ThomasGraniteTopsIRE]

I genuinely do not see the issue here. Two different machines, two different programming methods. Thats not an issue in my book.
If it was an issue (Again I don't think it is) I'd be ringing Prussiani and saying this saw doesn't programme the same way I programme the two Denver saws I had before this, change everything so I can programme the way I do with the other machines.
The two Denver saws are programmed off one computer. The Prussiani off another. The denver computer is on a network with the two Denver saws and the Prussiani computer is on a network with the prussiani saw.

Unless I'm missing something?

You can't expect sasso to change their programming ways just because you can't get used to it?

This is from a shop who produces 10 kitchens a day....

[Rob Pearce]

When you get a new machine you have to expect to learn new things. We had a similar thing with out Donatoni jet at first.it took 4 months of hard work and open mindedness to achieve some decent results. We can now easily cut 8 slabs per shift which is adequate for our set up, the answers to some questions don’t always follow a logical path the software can have things you have to work around to achieve a required result.
With time the operator gets quicker at using the functions of the saw, things that seem like a chore in the beginning become easier a few months down the line.
Does the Sasso have a touch probe for measuring slab thickness?
Also is there a blade measuring feature?
If so this should change the parameters in the settings of the machine so you are not cutting beyond the end points on internal cuts or when plunge cutting

[Ken Lago]

I would say that any of your two saws are able to cut 7 kitchens / 14 slabs a day, easily!
Mark does not bullshit, and knows more about programming, fabricating and getting things done than almost anyone I know.

[Paconianphysics]

We cut between 12-14 slabs per day on the Fusion depending on material. We’re trying to hit around 24 slabs or more per day across both saws.

Our latest experiment was to cut three programmed jobs on the SASSO with a fresh touch off. One job was a single vanity, the second two vanities, third was two slabs of man made material as part of a larger job. The first vanity cut fine. The second job the cuts didn’t go all the way through. We figured out that we’d need to touch off after every programmed slab. The blade difference is roughly 1/32”. This doesn’t make sense considering we’ve been told it only needs to be touched off after 1/8” of wear. So I’m thinking there’s a setting or set of settings I need to adjust.

I’m really trying to find a work around so we only need to do it maybe every 21 slabs or so at least. That would give us a 3-4 day buffer zone between programming and cutting.

I’m also trying to find a way to do a manual cut style like a machine style for blades. It would save time rather than ‘purging’ and re-plotting to ‘trick’ the saw into cutting what I need cut. I could just add a manual cut to the program, I can do this with the mill bit, why not the saw blade. Has anyone set up a blade ‘style’ or used the saw cut feature in AlphaCAM on the SASSO?

Mark,

I’m not actively trying to throw you under the bus, I’m trying to get results out of an expensive piece of equipment. Let’s get real, everyone involved in this particular installation has eaten shit. You, me, my employers, & your employers. My thought was to appeal to a community for some technical help. Nobody called me today, FYI. So here’s my current bug list, go nuts:

- super plunge cuts into adjoining decks when simulation shows it not doing that at all
- ‘invalid call argument’ during Cut Parts function (doesn’t stop me from continuing to program)
- SASSO computer freezes daily, sometimes multiple times, requiring restart
- ‘Cut Parts’ is slow as hell on anything more than a vanity (will probably just have to buy a new rig with more horsepower. Of course, I’m going to have to explain the cost to my employer which won’t go well I’m sure.)
- Blade touch off needed after every program
- cannot manually plot saw cuts, yet. (I will find a way)
- matching the stops to Slabsmith . (Should be easy if we can get some stops)
- saw laser not calibrated? (Not sure if a problem worth fixing)
- chipping corners on man made stone. (Still ruling out parameters to narrow down the cause, suspect the blade.)

[ZackaryC]

We have recently purchased the K600 and had it setup 1st week of January of this year. The issues we have had so far are mainly related to software programming and are what I would call operator error/inexperience. It really does what you tell it to do, which is great when all goes well, and crap when things dont go as planned.

I'm happy with the saw so far and will be watching how your issues pan out. Hopefully they can get a tech involved that knows exactly what needs to be done to get you back on track. We all just want to cut stone!

[dodsonchris]

We had ours installed last summer. K600. When you say hell with tech support, WE HAVE NEVER had that experience. Did we have a learning curve, for sure. From the few issues we have had. We call and someone answers. The one software issue we had, they gave us an immediate work around until it was resolved. Every person at Sasso we have worked with has given us their direct cell. They have all answered the call right away or called us back within a few minutes. They have also answered their phone on weekends.

Usually don't like to jump in on forums like this, but had to give my experience.

I dont perform the programming, but feel free to call Koby Benefiel at 817 461-5189. He does all the programming for our Sasso and he will be glad to answer any questions you have.

[Dan R.]

OP appears to wanting to push a round peg (Sasso) into a square hole (existing procedures).
That saw will easily cut 15 slabs a day.

My father always said that the Good Lord gave me 2 ears and only one mouth, so I should listen twice as much as I speak. That may apply here.

[Paconianphysics]

So I spent about two hours on the phone with Pete at SASSO yesterday. We had a very productive conversation.

Afterward, I made some changes to our saw settings that should eliminate the ‘touch off’ issue within our processing timeframe. If those changes work right for regular cutting. Basically, because the software sees the top of the stone as the 0 ‘Z’ plane any stone slightly outside the .1” margin of tolerance for thickness will have issues with cutting. So I simply changed that tolerance to .25”. Personally, I would have stuck with having the table being the 0 plane and letting the user set thickness based on assigning each slab a material thickness. It’s what AlphaCAM is default setup to do, but now that I get exactly what this thing is doing math wise I can work around it. We should be able to program safely with the ‘super plunge’ now.

There’s definitely something agonizingly slow on our specific computer using ‘cut parts’. I’m 99% positive the issue is narrowed down. There’s two plans of action for dealing with it. If one doesn’t work, the other will.

After our phone call I played with some of the AlphaCAM tools and figured out how to do a ‘manual’ program cut. It needs refinement, but it can be done.

[Paconianphysics]

Status Update:

SASSO has been gracious with getting our software to move faster. The saw itself has taken quite a bit of abuse and holds up quite well. We are floating the table every other week with a 2000psi mortar ready mix that is designed to stick to existing concrete. Our consistency of cuts has greatly improved as a result. Most of the guys love the handheld pendant for manual cutting. Not sure why SASSO seems to act like it’s the ugly step child.

On the software end, we’ll never end up integrating the Park and SASSO plugins on the same computer side by side. So our CAD drafting and Slabsmith work occurs on other machines. As a result, the SASSO plugin is only used for plotting final cuts and milling. We customized our interface to remove the sink widgets and other stuff that don’t pertain to cutting. We just won’t need it and they clutter up the workspace. As we dig deeper, except in rare occasions is the ‘prepare parts’ function actually needed. Actually, a lot of our glitches disappeared when we stopped using it. Not sure what that’s all about, but I’ll take it. We turned off the millbit in ‘Cut Parts’ altogether and plot our milling manually. We found that ‘Cut Parts’ wasn’t plotting milling in useful ways, especially on jog seams. Scribes have been vexing since on more severe scribes along a wall the saw blade creates peaks that don’t get noticed till install and the piece isn’t fitting right. So we do all our scribes with the incremental cutter.

If you’re thinking that is slow as hell, you’re right! Since we can’t program a manual cut after hitting ‘Cut Parts’ without a conniption fit from the plugin; I’ve been looking for a work around. Today I found it, well, pending further testing. But so far it’s very promising.

[Amroczka]

So I spent about two hours on the phone with Pete at SASSO yesterday. We had a very productive conversation.

Afterward, I made some changes to our saw settings that should eliminate the ‘touch off’ issue within our processing timeframe. If those changes work right for regular cutting. Basically, because the software sees the top of the stone as the 0 ‘Z’ plane any stone slightly outside the .1” margin of tolerance for thickness will have issues with cutting. So I simply changed that tolerance to .25”. Personally, I would have stuck with having the table being the 0 plane and letting the user set thickness based on assigning each slab a material thickness. It’s what AlphaCAM is default setup to do, but now that I get exactly what this thing is doing math wise I can work around it. We should be able to program safely with the ‘super plunge’ now.

There’s definitely something agonizingly slow on our specific computer using ‘cut parts’. I’m 99% positive the issue is narrowed down. There’s two plans of action for dealing with it. If one doesn’t work, the other will.

After our phone call I played with some of the AlphaCAM tools and figured out how to do a ‘manual’ program cut. It needs refinement, but it can be done.
[

Is the sasso really set up that way? Setting the "Z" origin as the top of the material? I wonder why? Also im curious if you could set it up how you would rather it be (setting the table as z "0") by touching off on the table and just entering your slab thickness into alphacam. Idk maybe the transfering from alpha to sasso get overided?
I find it crazy that it is based off a tolerance. How does that work when doing miters?