GoClips 5-Second Anchors for Undermount Sinks

[JMarcella]

Thanks, but I'm happy with the Sink-its, and supporting my SFA friend. No offense, but saving a few seconds and/or a few cents is kind of like splitting hairs to me.

[Ken Lago]

I would like to retract my request for samples of the GoClips, Kevin just brought something to my attention that I don't want to get in the middle of.

[luke getz]

I would like to retract my request for samples of the GoClips, Kevin just brought something to my attention that I don't want to get in the middle of.

I was wondering if that would be an issue. they are almost an exact copy.....definitely the same concept

[Darryl Miller]

I would like to retract my request for samples of the GoClips, Kevin just brought something to my attention that I don't want to get in the middle of.

Retraction of request for me as well.

[tim farr]

Retract my offer as well

[GoClips]

Rey, you can use them for sink rims up to 3/4". So yes they would work on ss.

Dan, we sent you some samples blind. Hope you don't mind. You seem to be brutally honest and members highly value what you have to say. And we are looking for feedback from industry veterans like us who have extensive experience with Arabescato.

[kevinp]

Dave,

I have been granted a patent. In that patent the following is included:

[0026] Other embodiments of the present clamping device are contemplated by the present inventor, including a clamp 10 without a binding tab 16, where the clamp body would serve as the entire clamp. In this example, the clamp screw 15 will press directly against the edge of the sink 11 when tightened, instead of the binding tab 16. The clamping device would otherwise function the same as described above. In another embodiment, a portion of the clamp body 17 may be configured to be formed at a substantially right angle to the clamp body 17 instead of the binding post 14.

As you can see, my patent clearly includes an embodiment of a clamp with the tab formed at an angle from the body instead of a binding post, which is the same design as all three versions of Goclips. That is infringement.

[GoClips]

Kevin,

Yours is hole-based. Ours is slot-based. Commercial embodiments are different.

I'm sure you agree that issues you are referring to are a bit complex for a message board. Will pm you directly.

[tallzeng]

I did receive the clips but I am not going to use them as I do not want to get into the middle of this issue!!!

[Dan R.]

Rey, you can use them for sink rims up to 3/4". So yes they would work on ss.

Dan, we sent you some samples blind. Hope you don't mind. You seem to be brutally honest and members highly value what you have to say. And we are looking for feedback from industry veterans like us who have extensive experience with Arabescato.

Dave,
Thank you for admiring a quality of mine, that usually only a mother can love. if you think I am brutally honest, you should meet my mother. However, that is a story for another time.

What does having experience with Arabescato have to do with evaluating these products? Are you a fabricator?

I did receive your package, thank you.
Inside were clips (that looked very similar to a Sinkits) and a plastic brace system (similar to one I had seen at previous trade shows).
While no legal scholar, I could not help to notice the striking resemblance between your products and ones that were already familiar to me.

A bigger fan of the free market, you will not find. However, I am an even bigger fan of intellectual property. I try to support those who have designed significant products ranging from the simple objects to furniture. I like to buy the original, whether it is an Eames chair from the '50's or an Original Al's Italian beef sandwich (wet). If original is not available, I think the next best thing is a properly licensed reproduction. This still honors the original designer and the rightful owners of the intellectual property, imo.

I asked clients on a daily basis, if they like the look of natural stone and the price is comparable to the "fake" products masquerading as "stone like", why wouldn't they choose natural stone? If one always coveted a Ferrari and someone built a replica for 10% cheaper, would you buy the replica? I would not. I think everyone reading this knows the answer. Just like any good attorney, a good salesman never asks a question that he already doesn't know the answer to.

While your products are useful, they do have a certain air of impropriety about them. I would question the due diligence of Go Clips. Can it be a coincidence of astronomical proportion that Go Clips has randomly produced similar products to these already well known industry products ? Or is it possible that Go Clips took a calculated risk to produce these products, knowing the long, drawn out & expensive legal remedy to fight a patent battle?

Since you are looking for feedback from this industry veteran, here it comes:
1. I like the idea of cutting a slot, although it does raise dust and environmental concerns of varying degrees, depending on the location.
2. Never been a fan of the bracket. Mainly because a lot cabinet side walls are pressed wood chip board, which does not hold a screw securely, in my experiences. It is difficult to teach different protocols for the same issues and expect employees to decide. It is counter intuitive to the entire idea of protocols, imo. Not worth learning or using for the most part, imo.
3. I will say shame on Go Clips for putting pressure on these small business men who have designed and developed these products. In a world of perception being reality, Go Clips is perceived by me as a copycat bully, willing to take whatever they please and others be damned, letting deeper pockets to prevail. This is not how I prefer to do business.

[steven nenzel]

Cancel my request for a demo set.

[GoClips]

Dan, thank you for your honest opinion. However, we don't agree that it is a copy cat product or that we are bullying anyone. I have told Kevin that we will refer the issue again to our attorney to see if we are doing anything improper. Patent law is very complex and nuanced. We do not intend to do harm to anyone. Our focus is to provide products that solve a problem. And Arabescato was a joke from a previous thread. Yes have been a fabricator.

That being said, the Sinkits method requires a hole to be drilled. Ours requires a slot similar to the G-clip. Intellectual property specific to both products is different from GoClips. Arguably similar but different. If Sinkits employed slots for use there would certainly be no need for GoClips. Word is Sinkits is copying our design now. So shame on who? Lots of similar products can have separate patents. Cell phones are but one example.

We started this thread to get honest unbiased feedback about a product that can benefit the community that should consider it based on the merits and not on emotion. The other issues will work themselves out.

Thanks.

[Dan R.]

» Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:35 pm

Dan, thank you for your honest opinion. However, we don't agree that it is a copy cat product or that we are bullying anyone. I have told Kevin that we will refer the issue again to our attorney to see if we are doing anything improper. Patent law is very complex and nuanced. We do not intend to do harm to anyone. Our focus is to provide products that solve a problem. And Arabescato was a joke from a previous thread. Yes have been a fabricator.

That being said, the Sinkits method requires a hole to be drilled. Ours requires a slot similar to the G-clip. Intellectual property specific to both products is different from GoClips. Arguably similar but different. If Sinkits employed slots for use there would certainly be no need for GoClips. Word is Sinkits is copying our design now. So shame on who? Lots of similar products can have separate patents. Cell phones are but one example.

We started this thread to get honest unbiased feedback about a product that can benefit the community that should consider it based on the merits and not on emotion. The other issues will work themselves out.

Thanks.





Dave Smith
GoClips LLC
1-844-4-GoClips
dsmith@zkeepersllc.com

Dave,

Your welcome. I offered an opinion, not a debate. The legal details will work themselves out based on legal talent. In court, truth has very little to do with the outcome, compared to presentation and preparation. Any 2nd year law student knows this.

It is interesting that 2 separate products were sent to me and yet only one is asked about feedback. Why not ask for feedback about the sticks? If you don't want that feedback, why did you send them? Did everyone receive both products?

Being evasive behind a lawyer is the type of behavior that screams less than forthright, imo. There are many adjectives that could substituted for "less than forthright".

My opinion is that I wouldNOT BUYeither of these products sent for evaluation from Go Clips. I would buy them from their original developers. That is my opinion!

Again, why by a knock off when the original is readily available? Isn't THAT a major flaw with our economy right now? Support the guys who put in the time, sweat, effort and money to develop these products. Build relationships and do business with good people, you never go wrong with that!

[GoClips]

Dan, thanks for the “objective” comments. Your agenda is clear and any assumption that you could be unbiased was wrong on our part. The irony of your comments about “bullying” are not lost on us.

Intellectual property matters should no doubt be left to experts. Simply put, Sinkits “clamp and method” IP involves a device that is applied with drilled or bored holes. That does not preclude us or anyone from coming up with a new device and method.

The comments “cheap replica” and “knockoff” illustrate a complete lack of knowledge about hardware manufacturing. GoClips have a coating. Beneath the coating is the same material that every other sink clip is made out of that no one has complained about before. The coating is for added protection, adds to the cost, and increases the quality even though it is completely unnecessary. Our factory produces parts that you will find on the shelves of Home Depot and Lowes and also in iPhones. The quality of our products is indisputable. Try bending our spring clip with your bare fingers. You can't. So don't let the appearance of GoClips fool you. They are manufactured to the highest standards. It's obvious you did not even try them but are intent on degrading them for personal reasons.

Your environmental concerns about dust are duly noted. We fully support your campaign to outlaw turbo blades.

GoClips is a slot-based product and will remain a slot-based product. We will make changes as needed to make sure our products do not infringe on anyone's IP and that our advertising is positive and does not degrade any other products.

Thanks you.

[Omni Cubed Larry]

......
Your environmental concerns about dust are duly noted. We fully support your campaign to outlaw turbo blades.
......

[Dan R.]

Dave, please do not put words in my mouth. I said nothing about outlawing turbo blades. You asked door my opinion and did not like it, so now you try and divert attention away from my recommendation and try to change the dialogue.

How can an opinion be wrong?
Why assume? You know the old saying about assuming, eh?

Your post amounts to lying, plain and simple. It really shows your character, far clearer than I could ever portray. Thank you.
I have no agenda.
I was asked for my opinion and I gave it. If you did not want my opinion, then you should not have asked for it.
I have no financial interest in any vendor product.
What could possibly be my personal reasons? I do not even know you or your company.


You have been given some latitude with your little gorilla marketing campaign. In hindsight, this seems to be an error, given your posts and attitude.

How much do these things cost?

Care to answer any of my previous questions? I would appreciate an answer to every one of them.

Thanks.

[fabianag]

I'd like to try the manual ones please.
Granite Plus
9 Progress Ave
Chelmsford, MA 01824

[GoClips]

Whoa Dan. You are taking things way too literally. No one actually thinks you want to outlaw turbo blades. That wasn't "lying" and has nothing to do with character. It's called humor. It's hilarious. Sorry you missed it.

Once again, we do not engage in "gorilla" marketing. We don't market to gorillas or for gorillas. Again hilarious. Just thought your members might appreciate free samples of a product that might be useful to them. If it wasn't a great product we wouldn't be giving away free samples to anyone who wants to try it. You obviously think we are copying one of your sponsors' products so it was a mistake to ask for your feedback. No worries.

"Agenda" was a bad word to use. It should have been "bias". You thanked your sponsor's post above as well as others on his behalf. That shows you are being partial to your sponsor. It's understandable and we apologize for breaking protocol by posting anything regarding products that directly compete with your sponsors. A few of your members explained it and now it makes sense. Again understandable. No worries.

We are the original developers of our slot-based anchors. They have features that differentiate them from your sponsor's products. G-clips was the original developer of the slot-based clip. Sinkits was the original developer of the hole-based Sinkit.

The cost of GoClips is $1 - $1.35 range.

Hope that answers any questions you had.

[ash20ash]

Not going to get involved in the legal side of this other than I really think Obama is behind all of this.

But I aggread to review these clips if he sent me some. SOooooooooooooo

We have used the slot ones on a couple vanity sinks and they seem to work great. And appear to be very well made. The design of this is a great for manual shops because they will not have to drill a "precise" hole just to mount their sink.
If I were still manual, these would be my 'go to" anchors.

I will still show loyalty to Kevins product as his invention has saved me tons of time and money over the last couple years. And because of his sponsorship to this organization.

The plastic supports seam to be a great idea.And I will try these out asap. But its gonna be hard to beat the price of 3/4 wood strips screwed into the cabinet walls.

What is the price of the plastic supports?

I hope the two companies can work something out on this as this "slot method" is great for the manual guys.


All in all.................Great product and glad to see peeps trying to make our lives easier.

[Dan R.]

Dave,
Sorry, it should have been guerrilla instead of gorilla. But that was a funny comment on my grammar. Although,it does seem, imo, that you feel that you may be marketing to monkeys, who can not reason.

Furthermore I do not have members or sponsors. you seem to be confusing me with the SFA. I am but a single director on the board. I do have a say around here, but not as much as you suggest.

It is unfortunate that you valued my brutal honesty and my highly regarded opinion, until it was not favorable to "your" product(s). How would have thought? Go figure.

Those products were viable before you started making them. It is just unfortunate they look, act and function like the Sinkits and braces.

Odd coincidence, I suppose. I wish you luck in your continued R & D quest for innovative products for industry.

Please tell us more of your background in the industry and how you came to innovated these products, both the clips and the braces. Everyone loves a great human interest story.

Sorry, I did not recognize your humor, typically jokes are placed in the water cooler forum. Maybe your members could explain the general guidelines to you, in order to post the appropriate subject matter in the appropriate place. I would always be willing to answer any questions, that I could, regarding the forum.

Best wishes.