About $9 grand...

[dsyverson]

is what this little-reported on gem in Obamacare will cost our company when it hits:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... n-in-2014/

Note, it's per person, not employee.

[Jeff H.]

"I will not raise taxes on anyone making less than $200k, not one penny". There will be more to come.

[Miles]

If I'm reading that right, that's 63 per person per year the first year, decreasing each year and ending after three years. I would venture to say that premium increases would have amounted to more. At least they have for us!

[Dan R.]

When was the last time the government wanted less in taxes?

It would be cheaper to buy the 10,000,000 uninsured a policy than this masquerade of Obama care. There will be a tax under every rock and no oe will be better off, even thee with no coverage at all, right now.

[dsyverson]

I also like how they talk about phasing it out, kinda like the tax on phone calls that was in place for 108 years until 2006 to fund the Spanish-American war.

And Miles, our premiums are going up 40%, this tax is just another cherry on top.

[Omni Cubed Larry]

I also like how they talk about phasing it out, kinda like the tax on phone calls that was in place for 108 years until 2006 to fund the Spanish-American war......

Dave, that is exactly what I was thinking.

[Dan R.]

Glad we got that paid off!
Now we can start on WW I. Man, we are really retiring that debt now! We should be in the black by the next Ice Age!

[GuyboR]

We should be in the black by the next Ice Age!

That ain't happenin'. Didn't you hear....there is global warming going on....b/c of humans.

[Joshua Hopkins]

We should be in the black by the next Ice Age!

That ain't happenin'. Didn't you hear....there is global warming going on....b/c of humans.

No Guy, you got it wrong new research says global warming is caused by the sun. Duh!!! I wish these idiots would stick their heads back up their behinds where they belong.

[GuyboR]

If I'm reading that right, that's 63 per person per year the first year, decreasing each year and ending after three years. I would venture to say that premium increases would have amounted to more. At least they have for us!

Dave,

I've skimmed it a few times also. Read it word for word? No. But I'm seeing it as $63/per person also. Where are you getting the 9k per person from?

Miles...based off a previous thread on insurance, your rates are extremely low compared to mine and just about everyone elses. Your rates will probably be going up w/ or w/o Obamacare.

[Miles]

Guy,

I think our rates are okay, but our coverage gets worse every year. But I've had two sit downs with my insurance guy. He tells me that once the new law goes into effect, we are going to come out cheaper by dropping our company policy and everybody going through the exchange. I guess I will take the money I pay towards the employees insurance and pay it directly to the employee if this is the case.

[Dan R.]

Guy I think it will cost Dave $9,000 for all of his employees at $63 a head.

It will cost me $315, but I still think the principle of more government sucks!!!

[GuyboR]

Guy,

I think our rates are okay, but our coverage gets worse every year. But I've had two sit downs with my insurance guy. He tells me that once the new law goes into effect, we are going to come out cheaper by dropping our company policy and everybody going through the exchange. I guess I will take the money I pay towards the employees insurance and pay it directly to the employee if this is the case.

Your rates are good for your coverage then. Pay more or get less.

Drop your company policy....my opinion is that is what they have always had as their motive. They want as many people on the government policy coming out of the gate as they can get. Then once they have a firm hold of it, watch out like all other government run items.

Note, it's per person, not employee.

I misread this part the first 12 times. I was reading it as per employee, not per company. As a "per person", then it hits the employee and any spouses and dependents on the policy. I should have slowed down and read closer.

[Miles]

Interestingly enough Guy, I have a couple of employees that have turned down our company insurance and have gotten insurance on their own. We provide 100 dollars towards the individual policy, which is now around 140 a month. So it costs the employee 40 dollars pre-tax. But for family it is around 480 a month and the employee pays 380. But our employees are finding that they can get coverage cheaper on their own, even without the 100 dollars the company provides. Much cheaper. One guy told me that he has a family policy off the internet for about 270 a month and the coverage is better. He doesn't have any kids on the policy though.

But, the point is, the insurance system we have in the US doesn't make sense and is outrageously expensive. And the results we get don't justify the costs.

[dsyverson]

Guy: "my opinion is that is what they have always had as their motive. "

This is the prevailing opinion of everyone both in businesses and insurance people that I've spoken too..which makes the "if you don't like the Govt. option..you can keep your plan" nothing more than another cynical lie repeated often enough that even sane, middle of the road types bought into it.

Our fine on 81 employees for not providing insurance will be $162,000 a year....cost to insure them if we kept 100% of the single covered was about $480,000. What turns my stomach is I drop coverage and pay the fines and all those people get to go onto the Government exchange and hope for the best. People from Canada come down here now and pay cash when they need and can afford a critical procedure rather than die waiting in line up there....where are we going to go when and if we don't want to wait?

At this rate we could've bought insurance polices on the open market for the Nation's 20 million uninsured and kept the free market components in place and spent $50 billion a year instead of this bullshit we have coming down the pipe.

[steven nenzel]

Miles, what kind of insurance are you buying for $140? What is the deductible? Seems incredibly cheap compared to what we pay.

[Miles]

Okay Dave, I'm not sure I understand this right. But the first 30 employees are excluded from the employer mandate from what I have read. So if you had to pay the 2000 dollar fine for the other 51 employees, your fine is 102,000. So that would break down to 1250 per employee or thereabouts. That would equate roughly to 100 dollars a month per employee.

If all the employees are then covered for 100 a month each, that would be about what we pay now. Am I missing something?

[Miles]

Miles, what kind of insurance are you buying for $140? What is the deductible? Seems incredibly cheap compared to what we pay.

We have a policy through Coventry. Our deductible is 3500 per person and 6000 per family. But it does include Co-pay coverage. So if you go to the doctor in network, it has a 40 dollar co-pay and that's it. We have prescription coverage that I don't fully understand, but when I buy medicine I have paid as little as 4 dollars and as much as 15 for a prescription. But honestly, my wife understands the policy and I don't.

I think it boils down to, if you have the flu or a rash and go to the doctor, you pay a co-pay. If you have something major, you are covered after the deductible. For everything in between, you will pay until the point you have met your deductible.

But my family has been on this policy for about 4-5 years and it works for us.

[dsyverson]

Here's the link to that section of the bill, I don't see where the first 30 are exempt:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-201 ... c4980H.pdf

Either way, in the past I always wanted to grow our company and now that we are over 50 employees I feel like I got a freakin' bullseye on my back. I guess I'm just pist that I'm not even close to the 1% or the $250K income bracket, yet I got new taxes hitting me and my business left and right.

[Miles]

Section D on the second page of the link says that to figure the penalty the work florce will be reduced by thirty. For some reason it won't let me copy and paste.

I know it's big government. But if in fact it comes down to you paying 100 bucks a month and everybody has healthcare and the company and workers save money, isn't that a good thing?

But I admit to not fully understanding how the law works.

[DavidL]

Miles, what kind of insurance are you buying for $140? What is the deductible? Seems incredibly cheap compared to what we pay.

Steven - At my last company we paid up to $200/month per employee as a reimbursement. They had to take the responsibility of getting their own policy and paying the bill. They turned in receipts and got reimbursed during that pay period (end of the week). I only had one employee who was outside of the budget. That person paid an additional $75/month above what we would reimburse. It put the responsibility on the employee to find a policy that worked for them. The employees that were below the budget basically had 100% reimbursement. Worked great.

Miles - We switched from Coventry to BC/BS this past March. I'm sure our rates differ becuase of group size but it was cheaper to move back to BC/BS than stick with coventry. From what I have been told, we end up switching companies about every 2 years because of the way they each try to jack up the rates. When you are buying new from a new agent they always come in with the best deal, by the end of year 2 they are diong the automatic increases so it becomes time to shop again.

[Tank]

Ain't government GREAT !! As I have said many times and been scoffed at, the point of Obamacare was never to fix healthcare, just as the stimulus wasn't intended to fix the economy, if you doubt it, just look at the results, it was an utter failure.

Obamacare was not designed to fix the healthcare issue, if it had been, as Dan said, there were other ways to do it without forcing 310 million people to foot the bill for 30 million or so, especially considering that we have programs already in place to provide healthcare for those who cannot afford it - it was designed specifically to make it so expensive for employers to provide healthcare for their employees that they would rather pay the "fine" that isn't a tax and push their employees into government exchanges, just as Miles is saying he will do.

This was about government control, nothing else, think about how much of your life is related to healthcare, or how much government could theoretically associate with healthcare...and now think about how much control the government now has over your lives.

I find it quite telling that Democrats who voted for this travesty without reading it are now scrambling to get rid of it.

[steven nenzel]

Kind of flies in the face of "you can keep your same doctor, same health care, etc" doesn't it! What a flat out lie that was. How many businesses are going to keep their insurance when they can unload it onto gov't. Was that not the plan all along.

[Miles]

I can tell you I would love not to have to deal with healthcare. Do you think it is a good system? I would rather the govt. provide healthcare than me. I don't know why it has anything to do with employment. I'm all for personal responsibility on this issue, but we've tried that too. The 310 million end up paying for the 30 million anyway.

If you had a choice as a business owner to come up with a way to keep all your employees insured or ditch it and let the govt deal with it, you'd chose to deal with it yourself?

[steven nenzel]

So Miles, 2700 pages of law is the answer Get real. It amazes me as you are a business man. How can 2700 pages of laws written by bureaucrats, lawyers and lobbyists be good for the rest of us - are you really serious or is your emotional attachment to defending the democrat party totally clouding your judgment? Do you have a 2700 page manual to run your company? When something is not working in your business model do you just throw anything at the problem and then say it is better than doing nothing? Of course you don't but you are willing to do the same with health care.

No one is saying it does not need fixing but this solution is going to be worse than the problem.