I would really appreciate any advice about my countertop.

[stone & wood]

Part of the issue is that the cabinets are frameless and have no support for the countertop/sink. If a support is added to the cabinet the sink could have been closer to the front. The general consumer has no idea that frameless cabinets are a poor design and should never be put in a home without adding support at the sink.

[Kowboy]

Part of the issue is that the cabinets are frameless and have no support for the countertop/sink. If a support is added to the cabinet the sink could have been closer to the front. The general consumer has no idea that frameless cabinets are a poor design and should never be put in a home without adding support at the sink.
[

Dave:

As long as a cabinet has sides and the sink is strapped, not clipped, in place, no front cabinet rail is necessary. When you strap a sink to the sides of a cabinet, you have essentially turned the sink into a 9" deep truss. Much stronger than any cabinet rail.

Joe

[CustomMarbleGranite]

Part of the issue is that the cabinets are frameless and have no support for the countertop/sink. If a support is added to the cabinet the sink could have been closer to the front. The general consumer has no idea that frameless cabinets are a poor design and should never be put in a home without adding support at the sink.
[

Dave:

As long as a cabinet has sides and is strapped, not clipped, in place, no front cabinet rail is necessary. When you strap a sink to the sides of a cabinet, you have essentially turned the sink into a 9" deep truss. Much stronger than any cabinet rail.

Joe
[

I really forgot how stupid you are sometimes
Thanks for reminding me
Cheers

[tim farr]

I feel your pain Lester. I still cannot believe I let him suck me in. Just don’t feed the trolls.

[Kowboy]

[[/quote]
I really forgot how stupid you are sometimes
Thanks for reminding me
Cheers
[[/quote]

Lester:

Sorry to see you go ad hominem. Here's a tough question for you. Please explain how the laws of physics don't apply to you and how the laws of physics not applying to you makes me stupid.

Thanks,

Joe

[Kowboy]

I feel your pain Lester. I still cannot believe I let him suck me in. Just don’t feed the trolls.
[

Tim:

Sorry to see you chickenshit out instead of articulating a cogent rebuttal. Give it a shot please.

Joe

[Kowboy]

Tim and Lester:

I think I know what's pissing you two off. No one has come forward to rebut my claims, nor have you. No one has ever found any of my work lacking. If you review the threads offering help to consumers here, you'll find a bias toward fabricators. There is a the usual "Hey, you got low bidder, what did you expect?" (Illogical in its own right.) There is a terror that the crap work that gets posted here just might be the work of an SFA member. That defend the fabricator at all costs mantra permeates this thread.

I've bailed SFA members out of trouble on commercial jobs.

You can't find fault with my work and you can't find fault with my methods, credentials, or claims. This makes you frustrated, so like third-graders on the playground, you call me names. At least we all know what's going on now.

Joe

[CustomMarbleGranite]

Tim and Lester:

I think I know what's pissing you two off. No one has come forward to rebut my claims, nor have you. No one has ever found any of my work lacking. If you review the threads offering help to consumers here, you'll find a bias toward fabricators. There is a the usual "Hey, you got low bidder, what did you expect?" (Illogical in its own right.) There is a terror that the crap work that gets posted here just might be the work of an SFA member. That defend the fabricator at all costs mantra permeates this thread.

I've bailed SFA members out of trouble on commercial jobs.

You can't find fault with my work and you can't find fault with my methods, credentials, or claims. This makes you frustrated, so like third-graders on the playground, you call me names. At least we all know what's going on now.

Joe
Joe I actually complimented you on what you do
Like an asshat you come back with more bullshit
When was the last time you fabricated and installed a115” sink run in crosscut Magma gold with a 2.75” sink rail with an oversized sink?

I guess cabinets don’t need front rails as long as the sink is strapped
Give me a break
[

[colin]

A bias towards fabricators? This is the STONE FABRICATORS ALLIANCE. It is not a forum for advising homeowners. It is a forum that allows fabricators to seek advice from fellow fabricators. I find fault in every photo you post. Your finishing skills are quite lacking. Im not here to critique(unless a fellow fabricator asks me to critique their work). You do perform a useful service. Good for you. The main fault of the fabricator in this particular case, like so many similar cases, is a lack of communication with the homeowner on the front end so that realistic expectations are created. When a consumer comes on here looking for ammunition, Im not here to give it. Im here to learn. Im here to help other fabricators. Why are you here Kowboy?

[GraniteBusters]

I agree with Colin, but I also think part of any trade organization is self-policing with respect to standards. That's not what you're doing though, Joe. I don't piss on your work. I think the work you do is impressive. However, you're applying methods and expectations from post fabrication modification done on top of cabinets to an installation. It being quartz, could they have brought the sink rail forward? Of course they could, but operating within industry standards is not an excuse, it's a reasonable explanation. Should they with granite?? Hell no. What you advise is like cutting cooktops in the shop then transporting and installing them like that. I don't care if you rod and use a sink saver, your losses are going to go through the roof.

Any sink 17" internal or more gets a six ways from Sunday assessment from me before I start programming it. If I don't think it will fit properly, I tell the customer to get a sink that will actually work. Sink manufacturers need to be tethered to reality. Since that's not going to happen, it's our job as fabricators to explain to customers that 14" deep vanity sinks and 17" deep kitchen sinks are not for the cabinets they say they're supposed to work for.

These new tubs have helped you carve a niche. Good for you, but they cause havoc for fabricators who actually have to deal with unsupported transportation and handling. What you do and what most of us do is not the same, so don't just trash on other people's work with your photographic evidence. Customers don't want to pay for fabricators to cut sinks on cabinets and polish nor do they want to deal with the mess, so we do realistic set-backs.

I don't trash on anybody's work even my local competitors who are not SFA members. I don't care about that. I just think, whether online or in person, it's classless and makes me look and sound like a crappy person. What we do is hard. We make mistakes from time to time. It's on us to make those right. The facts as presented point out bad communication, not a bad install.

If I see crappy work, I'm not going to call it right. This isn't crappy work.

Finally, and since I'm writing a book anyways, we should try to be more respectful of each other and the fact that this is an open forum area. Airing dirty laundry is unprofessional and just ignorant.