2cm laminate chissell edge??

[carpenterznailum2003]

I dont no what Im doing wrong.the problem is this, 2cm ubatuba laminated chissell edge.
I cut inch and a half strips grinded the bottom of granite plus the top of the strips then put some color in my flowing applied my strips to bottom of granite let set overnight started to use my beaver chipper the same beaver chipper i use on all my 3cm chisselled edges and im having NO luck its either cracking the pieces or the laminates are simply falling off.Is there any one that can give me some advise on what im possibly doing wrong?
Or is 2cm laminated uba tuba chisselled a terrible idea......

[Antonio Almonte]

What glue are you using? Are you cleaning the lamination strip before gluing it (blowing off and acetone)?

If you are using polyester resin with only a 1 1/2" lamination strip, you will have a good chance of the lamination coming off. Try using epoxy (Bonstone has great epoxy).

[kevinp]

Yeah, switch to epoxy!

[Nick]

It is not a poly vs epoxy problem, we do 4cm chisels with poly all the time.

For starters, a 1 1/2" glue up for a chiseled edge is way too small, it should be at least 2 3/4" because the chisel removes 1/4" or so. We also mix knife grade and flowing like 70/30 respectively, straight flowing for lams is not (in my opinoin only) the best way. You need to cup wheel the bottom of the piece and the lam, then blow off with an air gun and clean with acetone, Use C clamps like every 6" (really as tight as you can) and crank them down, and with poly you can be chiseling in 15 minutes with no problems.

[t-mobile]

Sounds like a adhesion problem. Wiping them clean is big(as it is on um sinks).
I would make my lams larger. You should also cut a channel, grooves, or write this suks in it..... this causes a chemical biscuit and helps with the locking. A smoothe surface from eliminating a lam line is actually a poor spot for adhesive.

Imo, I would also switch to a epoxy or integra for a adhesive, but I know nick is thowing down daily on lams and they are done right. Plenty of ways to skin this cat!

[Joe Little]

We tried Integra on some lam's, it failed when chiseled. I was told it cannot be glued too tight or it will not bond. So we went back to poly mix like Nick. we also use bigger lam strips ( 3" chiseling off 1/2 to 1" depeding on the stone ) and cut grooves into both lam pieces for a chemical bisquit, and we clean the crap out of them with acetone first. ( and not that cut-down cheap acetone either )

[carpenterznailum2003]

Thanx,
Im headed to the shop bright and early to try you guys suggestions.

[Mark Meriaux]

A smooth surface from eliminating a lam line is actually a poor spot for adhesive.

T,
Talk to the adhesive guys some more (Bonstone, Integra, Chem-Concepts). Most of them have told me that a slightly roughened surface (anything rougher than 100 grit) is IDEAL for adhesion. (I've been told that) chemical "biscuits" actually do not provide much more (if any) adhesion or shear strength. Old habits are hard to break, so use a combination of both if it makes you more comfortable.

For lams, I go straight from cup wheel (30 or 60 grit) to glue - after thorough cleaning/drying.

[t-mobile]

Thats what I was saying. After you smoothe the stone to eliminate a lam line by making it really tight, you need to go back and rough up the stone behind the point of the finish line so that it will adhere.

We cup wheel then use copper pads to smoothe lams. They are really really smooothe then we cut line that is 1/4 behind finished edge and we go back and rough it up behind that line.

Thats wierd about the chemical biscuit not helping much. I would have to see some test first hannd to believe it!

[Nick]

It takes literally 18 seconds to scribe "patrona marble 2010" on the back of a lam, you HAVE to do it, I can't believe it doesn't help. And if/when it gets demoed 30 years from now and the lam breaks clean, you can't go wrong making someone else smile or recognize the company that created the masterpiece they just destroyed

Serisously though, copper is overkill, cupwheel is all you need, the real key is removing 1/8" (much more fun with C arm and CNC than with saw or by hand) to get a tight lam, that and a great color of course.

[kevinp]

I used poly for lams for a year or so and had some problems, switched to epoxy and have had absolutly none.

I did not go through the steps described above when I had problems with poly (I just hit it with a 50 grit, clean and glue), but I use the exact same procedures now using epoxy as I did with poly and I've had no problems since.

[Mike Stites]

We use epoxy here no problems. We do double cut or cnc off for tighter joints.

[carpenterznailum2003]

Well i went back and cut 2 inch strips roughed them up cleaned them up used epoxy and BAM worked great .
thanx everyone for your help..........

[squibble]

I am having problems with Integra sticking to cambrian black granite. I am currently about to start a huge project. I want to make sure I have my ducks in a row, so I am currently working on some testers. The edges are 1.5" chiseled, 2.5" chiseled and 4" mitered. Do I need to need to move to a different glue for laminating? I have had this problem in the past and solved it using unspoken, makeshift techniques. The back of the slabs are pretty rough, almost a flamed finish. Will grinding this with a 50gr cup prepare the surface better for gluing or is this mainly for cosmetic purposes.

[dustinbraudway]

Yeah dude. Clean up the stone before you glue. I have never ever had a problem with integra holding. Still need to prep the stone for a lam even if you are chiseling. When I say clean I mean get them smooth but not über polished smooth. I of then use the side on my saw blade to get a bit of texture and bite for the glue after prep. Don't forget to clean the stone prior to fitting up