Slab Delicatus Granite Problem

[Nick]

For the record, the house I was leaving Chris is talking about is the same one we had the wrong color vanities for, that still is not really our fault, but lets not glamorize that because a few celebritries live there

The lamination line is fine and not under debate from what I understand.

This really has nothing (or little) to do with skill, it may have to do with knowhow, in which case if he doesn't know how to do it he doesn't.


Everything I have posted is based on you having these concernes and bringing them up prior to the job starting and being told it would match. Even with all that said, the job is "acceptable" even though other companies with more experiance laminating may have done a better job. Now only you and your fabricator know exactly what was discussed before hand, but that is what makes or breaks you complaints.

What is your location out of curiosity?

[Alex DiPietro]

In my opinion the lams are within industry standard tolerances. That being said, they are not up to my standards, just like they aren't up to nicks standards. Many shops out there just don't laminate very frequently. Most of the country at this point has switched to 3cm material. We primarily work with 3cm material, but we do a lot of 6cm lamination, and we've also been around long enough to remember when there was no 3cm granite, and everything got lammed. As someone else mentioned the kitchen would have been a good candidate for a drop miter edge, but thats besides the point. I do not feel that they warrant replacement.

[Dan R.]

Customer_A,
You could refer your fabricator to the SFA website and he could perhaps learn to do better. The perplexing thing to me is why he would specifically mention matching the lamination and then not do it. The workmanship on the glue line and the polish of the edge indicates that he is skilled at this craft. So, it leaves doubt to why he would skip a vital step that was discussed, especially if it was one so important to him that he brought it up before fabrication. He did bring up the subject of matching laminations, didn't he? I assume he did, because we have never had one client ever bring up this point in 100 years. Unless some compelling evidence (full kitchen photos, sloppy workmanship elsewhere, contract) can be provided otherwise, I would tend to think that your neighbor, friend or someone else commented on the project and made you feel ripped off. This happens all the time, an expert who purchased one kitchen in Ubatuba is suddenly the voice of reason. Where was this expert when you need consulting BEFORE the sale, when it actually meant something?

So unless you live in Palm Beach (in which case you should have hired Nick), the job is okay. Where are you located?

Everyone's vision is 20/20 in hindsight.

[Ken Lago]

A question I would like to ask is: did you demand perfect vein match before signing the contract? if you did then you obviously didn't get what you wanted. Perfection, to a certain degree, can be achived but it could also mean doubling the cost on your job. Comunication between the customer and contractor HAVE TO be written out in detail so desputes can be resolved in a business like manner. If you would post a copy of the contract you had with the contractor, obviously with names and numbers blacked out, then I could tell you if you got what was in your contract.

[Stone Dude]

I agree with Nick, HOWEVER 9/10 fabricators are not going to produce something like in the pictures Nick just posted. Stuff like this should be specifically discussed before the work is done.

I feel the pictures posted by Customer A represent a job that could have been better, but is certainly not bad or unacceptable.Delicatus is not a fun stone to work with, and this is one of the reasons.

I have to also agree with Dan and say this is a natural product, our hands are tied at a certain point, we can only do so much.

[Customer_A]

$40K, not including the appliances, for a galley kitchen, ~150 square feet. High end custom cabinets with cherry doors, Botticino Fiorito marble tile on the floors, and matching glass backsplash. High end material...but the fabrication on the edge of the granite has a lot to be desired.

Cost is all relative to who's packet it is coming from. $40K may seem like a drop in a bucket for some locales and some pocket books. $40K is still a substantial amount of money.

[Customer_A]

I'm in Silicon Valley...in a town bordering Los Gatos, CA.

[Randy Gallion]

a galley kitchen, ~150 square feet. High end custom cabinets with cherry doors, Botticino Fiorito marble tile on the floors, and matching glass backsplash.

Can we see picts of the whole job

[Dan R.]

I have Botticino Semi-Classico in my house, great stuff, the polish will wear off, though. $40k is a decent chunk of money, I would love to see photos of the finshed project. I think hte granite is a good choice and I like the way it turned out, not perfect, but very nice workmanship on it, overall.

[Nick]

I would show pics of it all if you could. If the match is the only thing, that is certainly disappointing on some level, but it is what it is. You seemingly did not just go with cheapest bids and you are in a part of the country where fabricators laminate. Unfortunately it is hard for consuimers to fully comprehend that same kitchen, same edge and same color is not the same with 2 different fabricators doing it. This is not just in regards to "better or worse" but what we do is really an artistic effort on many levels and very custom working with a very difficult meduim. You could put the work of two good companies next to eachother and they may be different without one being "better" than the other. I don't mind when I lose jobs to people that do not care, I mind when I lose jobs to customers that think my work wil be the same as the guy $700 less when in fact if they knew it was not they would happily hire us. I also cannot blame the clients for not fully understanding as I am a consumer as well and know it is hard.

I

[pkomorowski]

Vein matching on laminations is not standard practice, in my opinion. If it was specified in the contract then you should have it fixed. If not then I don't think the fabricator made an error. Some fabricators (like Nick) will try to do it every time, but I'm sure their price reflects that in their proposals.

[pkomorowski]

I would show pics of it all if you could. If the match is the only thing, that is certainly disappointing on some level, but it is what it is. You seemingly did not just go with cheapest bids and you are in a part of the country where fabricators laminate. Unfortunately it is hard for consuimers to fully comprehend that same kitchen, same edge and same color is not the same with 2 different fabricators doing it. This is not just in regards to "better or worse" but what we do is really an artistic effort on many levels and very custom working with a very difficult meduim. You could put the work of two good companies next to eachother and they may be different without one being "better" than the other. I don't mind when I lose jobs to people that do not care, I mind when I lose jobs to customers that think my work wil be the same as the guy $700 less when in fact if they knew it was not they would happily hire us. I also cannot blame the clients for not fully understanding as I am a consumer as well and know it is hard.

I

And I think Nick's explanation was excellent. Natural stone is unique and a significant portion of the price your pay is for the craftsmanship and experience of the fabricator. There are high-end fabricators who produce high-end product and charge high-end prices. There are low-end fabricators that produce low-end ("industry standard", "builder-grade", etc) product and charge low end prices. There are fabricators in the middle.

If you had a Ferrari you wouldn't take it to the mechanic down the steet who charges cheap prices would you? It's not to say that he's not a good mechanic. He may be great but working on a Ferrari is just not what he's good at. Or a Mercedes, BMW, etc. He may be the best mechanic ever when it comes to working on 1990-2005 Toyotas, but he's just not a high-end car mechanic.

It probably isn't the best analogy. I don't think anyone ever goes with the highest bidder, but sometime we should give the high bidder a call and ask him why he's high. If you went with the mid-level bid then I think you got a mid-level product. Nothing wrong it. Typical for most shops. I suspect Nick's pricing would have been 20% higher than your "average" bid and 50% higher than your lowest bidder. I also suspect Ubatuba, St Cecilia and Tan Brown don't make up 50% of Nick's business either.

I don't like the "you get what you paid for" response, but you need to make sure that you get what you contracted to be supplied. If prices are more than 10% apart between your low bid and high bid then the bid isn't apples-to-apples.

[Nick]

Peter, I think that 40K for a "galley" kitchen is not cheaping out. I would guess that means she is in the cabinets for around 18, the appliances for proably 8 or so and lets say it is a 2 slab job in granite (because customers always think their job is not as big as it is in reality ) I would be in delicatus like $4600 range assuming it is not all that complicated. Now Florida and Cali are different price wise and Florida is way cheaper, but relatively speaking I don't think she went price shopping on this and I think that and her stated conversation has made me sypatheyic to her post. If she said originally she had IKEA cabinets I would be telling her the granite is more than acceptable and better than good . I think full pictures of the kitchen would lead to better advice BUT ultimately she needs to know that she really has to accept what she has and overall I hope the kitchen looks really good and it is something that just fades into it and at the very least she can educate her friends who might be remodeling on what to specifically go over before they start.

[Tom Shannon]

I've seen way to many delicatus lamination strips turn into rubble before my very eyes to throw rocks in this glass house. More than one top at my former employer started out as amazing matches and by the end we were happy to have enough material just to finish the job and only use 3 slabs for 60 square feet (plus lam)

[Jeff Martin]

Pictures of the entire kitchen would help show the full picture.

It's certainly within "industry standards."

It sounds like it is not up to expectations -- if it was discussed in detail then it's up for debate. Did he show pictures of other work, etc?

A mitered edge would have been the way to hide the lamination line.

The "radius edge" -- is that just a corner -- or just the edge profile -- or a large radius like an island or peninsula countertop overhand (I know you said galley -- just wondering if one side overhangs with a large radius, which would make the lamination much trickier in terms of vein matching).

The vein matching is not good in the picture with the pink post-it.

Several of the others look fine to me -- but a more distant view tells the story better.

$40k without appliances should have produced a top notch kitchen -- you have some latitude to have high expectations.

Hope it's resolved to your satisfaction -- it doesn't look like a bad job (from the pics), just not fantastic.

[james d]

OMG I did that kitchen!.............................





Not! yes the detail could be a lot better It is ultimatly up to you and your fabricator

just thought I would throw a little humor in there!!!! sorry!

[Randy Gallion]

I did that kitchen!

[Stonecuttter]

I, frankly, have been fairly DROOLING for distant pics of the entire kitchen.
As other have said, the workmanship looks ok. Fabricator knows his craft. Perfect veinmatch or not, would be a CONTRACT SPECIFICATION issue, based upon discussion prior to fabrication, and SPECIFIED.
Delicatus just plain sucks to work, and if you were an informed consumer, you probably knew that. Perfection costs. Above-average, and acceptable, costs a little less. Average costs even less.
Nick's work, you can't EVEN afford.

[Nick]

I would be willing to bet I am cheaper than over 60% of the shops on here for a majority of my work .


It is also in the low 70's today

I would guess that the lack of full pics and response is because it overall is not that bad or the issue was resolved.

[scott m]

I would be willing to bet I am cheaper than over 60% of the shops on here for a majority of my work .

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You should be near the top.

[Randy Gallion]

It is also in the low 70's today

Thanks Nick that really helps
because its in the low 30's here today

[coolhandchris]

I would be willing to bet I am cheaper than over 60% of the shops on here for a majority of my work .

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You should be near the top.

Nick is so cheap that when it is time for me to do my kitchen big style, I am going to send him DXFs.
His market sucks. Mine is probably about the same, but it is also 65 degrees here. No ocean though.