International membership fee

[GuyboR]

Why is there a fee

Because anything for nothing has no value.

So what does 250 pay for

It weeds out those that are serious about sharing and learning from those that only want to take.

You do not have to pay, the open forums are available for everyone to use if they choose.

[Allstone]

I disagree

I see no reason to have to pay a non profit that has paid sponsorship.

Volunteers work for free no. Is there no value in that?

Just does not make since to pay for sponsors to push product to me.

From what I see on the outside it is a big sales tool. Somebody is making money.

[Darryl Miller]

Who do you think is making money? It's not the directors. They volunteer all of their time and effort to make this work. With 35 years of stone experience under your belt you could probably be a great contributor in the Member's area. But your posts come across as someone inexperienced that can't see how networking with other professionals in this industry can help your business in many ways. I have yet to meet anyone that knows everything in this industry, but collectively we all know much more than we do individually. Learn, share, prosper. That is what the SFA was designed for. But it is voluntary on the signup, so you can always enjoy what content is available in the public areas. But I will say, you don't know what opportunities you are missing out on by having a closed mind to the concept. Try it out, I am sure you will not be disappointed. I for one would love to see what wealth of information you have to share and what I could learn from your posts.

[Dan R.]

I disagree

I see no reason to have to pay a non profit that has paid sponsorship.

Volunteers work for free no. Is there no value in that?

Just does not make since to pay for sponsors to push product to me.

From what I see on the outside it is a big sales tool. Somebody is making money.

If you see no reason to pay, then don't. Joining is not a compulsory requirement

Volunteers do work for free and yes there is value in that.

No one pushes product on anyone.

Hopefully, if the SFA works as designed, we all make money. You sound as if making money is a bad thing?
Widen your view and enjoy the benefits of membership.

We make money by sharing our failures, so others do not have to pay to make the same mistakes.
We make money when we learn a new piece of info on how to save $5 a slab for every slab we handle for the rest of our lives.
We make money learning of newer more effective tools and equipment.
We make money learning how to be smarter in many situations.
We make money by leveraging our relationships and buying in groups.
We make money by saving dinged up jobs, instead of cutting new pieces.
We make money every day and every way imaginable. Even some new ways.

I could type on and on about benefits of the SFA. It would be futile, because if you do not "get it" then every statement is retorted with a skeptical situation from the past.

This place is a lot like life itself. You get out of it what you put into it.

One can not lie to liar, steal from a thief or con a conman, as they are too acutely aware of the schemes from past experience to trust anyone. Trust makes the everything work better.

This place may not be your cup of tea.
Thanks for stopping by.

ps: the program captures all your peeking in.

[GuyboR]

I see no reason to have to pay a non profit that has paid sponsorship.

Do you pay for cable or satellite TV? Why? Aren't they taking money from paid sponsorships? You pay because there is value in the cable or Sat TV.

Darryl and Dan summed it up sufficiently.

But I'll add it one more time. If you see no value in it, don't pay.

[BellaTerra]

I once heard a very wealthy person say that one of the biggest reasons people don't succeed at becoming wealthy is they never ask the wealthy ones how they got wealthy.

The members area is where the serious discussions happen.
If you want to grow you can ask the guys that are bigger how they got there and learn from there mistakes and successes.
If you want to be more profitable you can ask the guys who have high margins how they keep them high.
However if you've got it all figured out and do not care to share because no one ever shared with you well this may not be the place for you.

I know one thing for certain and that is I will never know it all.

I can't wait to bring my first container in.
I can't wait to buy my first CNC saw and my first CNC router.
It's exciting being in this business and knowing that you have hundreds of guys that equal thousands of years of experience that will help you make the best decision every time.

I feel guilty at times like I have the answer book to every test that comes our way while the competition is going it alone.

[Darryl Miller]

I feel guilty at times like I have the answer book to every test that comes our way while the competition is going it alone.

Quote of the day right there. Pretty much sums it up.

[GuyboR]

John.....From the "5 Axis Breton post"

Company name is in my signature.

What is your website? I couldn't find you / your company with a simple google.

As for location. I'm all over

Please explain how you have posted from IP addresses from the following locations.
Ontario Toronto
Utah Providence
England London
Ukraine Kyyiv Kiev


Just curious.

[Dan R.]

Another poser busted!
No straight answers, no help, who needs a person like this? Certainly, not I..

[tallzeng]

I just don't get it sometimes! I wouldn't care if the directors or whomever got part or all of the dues I pay. Being able to go to a forum and get great advise from people that know a heck of alot more about this industry than me is priceless! I am a small shop and can't tell you how much money I have made from joining the SFA, and $250.00, I spend way more than that for ancillary crap that I don't need throughout the year - sodas, candy, super size lunch, etc - what does that give me? A gut!
Thank You SFA!!!!

[Allstone]

Another poser busted!
No straight answers, no help, who needs a person like this? Certainly, not I..

Wow True colors


Guy maybe you should brush up on Google skill

www.allstone.net
But don't worry if that's the welcome new guys get for asking a few questions thus is not the place I need to be.

[Allstone]

And to be clear it's a VPN to keep from getting spared and hacked look it up

And Dan you might not want to treat members like you do your customers.

Cheers Mate

[ageless]

It's always the remnant shoppers that want us to go out of the way to help them. Like we can guess their vanity size by how they stretch their hands.

[Dan R.]

I do not recall treating anyone like that, let alone a member. I assume you shall dig deeper and show me. Knock yourself out.

We have a few visitors every so often who are unreasonable. I have asked several "headaches" to leave our various properties. Don't remember one from the other, don't really care.

That is an entertaining story, first time I heard it. Not sure who wrote it. Again, don't really care.

Believe everything you read? I do not. I do not believe every thing I hear, either.

Evade answering questions is no way to endear yourself to anyone interested in sharing.

You are,evidently, nimble cruising the Internet, congrats. It must give you a great deal of satisfaction to be so smug from afar. Congrats to you.

[Dan R.]

Looks like All Stone is a distributor in New Jersey, and thus not even eligible to be a fabricator member, as they are not fabricators (not because they are from New Jersey). Arguing a moot point.

[steven nenzel]

John Hill,

You can't be serious. If you have been in business any length of time at all you would have some retarded reviews from nut jobs. If you do not then I have to assume you do little business and are not a player in your market.

Second, I would rather not have you join the forum. Having read your posts I would put no value in any of your words. You clearly are the type that shoots first and then aims. Your cup is already full.

[Andrew H]

Such hostility John Hill. This is why I tend to only hang out in the members only section. Ego's mostly set aside, we're not without our disagreements but there is a respect between us all where this type of back and fourth isn't the way we communicate.

I just wanted to say I don't pay the fee....my boss does...the owner.... he kinda shrugged it off the first time I approached him. But I stayed on him, I was tired of only hanging in the general forums. It was finally when we had a problem with some machinery I was able to convince him to pay the fee. Since that first year I feel like we got the better end of the deal and he fully understands see's that too. The help, knowledge and just the whole damn thing, it is greater than the sum of it's parts. I have met maybe 2 of the paid members face to face, maybe spoke to 3 or 4 on the phone, but never been to any kind of workshop or seminar and for years now I feel like most of you are my brothers not competitors. We all stand on each others shoulders to make the best out of this industry. The $250 is a small price to pay for that. In fact if my boss decided to stop paying the fee for some retarded reason, I would pay it because as long as I'm in this industry, I wouldn't want to be in it with out the SFA.


DAN R.....where's the NJ love brother

[Darryl Miller]

[Frosty]

Thread seems to have shot miles off topic but thanks for the replies

[Shiny Alex]

How about a tiered membership?

I'm a bit like the OP, very happy with my position at work, so have no real interest in the business side of things. For me it would be about improving what I know.

Maybe have a basic membership that allows access to the 'how to' section, so the workers can pick up pointers and advice. And then a full membership that allows access to the whole forum and all its benefits.

the general forum has been great, but it seems if you ask for advice the average reply is 'pay for membership' which is a bit off putting.

[Dan R.]

A membership can be used company wide, not just individually..

Most issues are discussed in the member area for the protection of the fabricators.

We all know that there are several ways to do almost every step in the fab/install process. Any variance could give tough clients the wrong idea that a process is wrong, instead of just different.

The cost of membership is not meant to be a burden for fabricators it is meant as a barrier for non fabricators.
A private fabricator only area also limits spammers and vendors from cluttering conversations.
The price of membership also is some skin in the game for each fabricator. By definition, membership has more value if it costs something. It has been determined that the optimal number is $250.

As far as tiered membership, what would be the cost? It seems like one more thing to manage by an over taxes volunteer board. The how to section is a small fraction of the info in the member area. Most posts are in the member lounge.

In the end, $250 in this industry is a grain of sand on the beach compared to the extreme cost of machinery, material and mistakes in this industry.

Of course, the value will vary to each member. The more effort you put into to using the site, the more value you will get out of it.

[Dan R.]

Shiny Alex,

A few stats to consider:
How To has 25 topics and 102 total posts.
Member Lounge has 8630 topics and 106,000 posts.

[Shiny Alex]

I did use that as an example

Imho answering most questions with 'I know the answer, but won't say because you haven't paid' will put off a lot of people.

One of the other forums I'm a member of has all the subscriptions built into the set up, so all members do is click a link, select what to pay for and pay. Then a mod will confirm it with in a couple of days.

And to trot out a line used very often here, it will help the forum grow, bring in more members and more money to help with the running and growth of the forum.
I would say a stepped fee of $100 a year gives you basic membership rights and $250 gives you the full fat version.

I know I would contribute more if I paid and I'm sure many others would too.

Alex.

[BellaTerra]

I made reference earlier to the value of what membership brings to a labourer. It costs about $.12 an hour of your wage to be an SFA member. I would gladly pay my guys a full dollar more an hour if I knew they were members and active in the forum. Now I can't tell them that because this desire to learn in here should be that and not a desire to just post random stuff to get paid a little extra. Having an employee who wants to know only a little bit more of the business and not wanting to know how to help in bigger areas of the business would be a bit disappointing from an owners perspective...

[kevinp]

SFA is about fabricators helping fabricators. I would be much less likely to share (what little I know compared to others here) if I knew that any one could log on and take without giving. The membership fee helps keep that from happening. When you pay a fee you are more likely to utilize the resource.

A tiered fee structure makes no sense to me. The moderators and directors already have their hands full as it is and I can't see how it would be structured without needless redundancy.