Affordable 5 axis Bridgesaw Comparison Sasso vs. Breton

[BellaTerra]

Not to stir the pot a whole lot more but if the prices i received are for my destination with my knowledge of computers and since my use is my use then when I discuss prices given by five vendors and ask the opinions of my colleagues are we not then comparing based on all the same factors? No one is expecting to get the same price as I was quoted instead we are comparing the pros and cons for the price of each quote given to me. Since I appreciate the input from people that are so much smarter and brighter than myself in this industry I am obviously going to ask for their input. Being told that I cannot/should not share the prices given me and that I should make this decision without the help of my peers seems a bit strange. If I were buying a house I would hope to bring my friends and family along to get their opinion and not just the real estate agents. Real estate agents often feel they know what is best for their customer but they are not me and my peers are much closer to being in my shoes than any sales person, representative, agent, manager, etc. My peers do not gain anything from seeing us purchase the right saw except the satisfaction that giving good advice brings.

[Ger Vanderbas]

I will leave this debate as I tried to make relevant and educational points to be helpful, and since I have nothing more to ad that I feel will be enriching, I will only say that I've not asked someone not to discuss pricing. In fact I asked if it were fair and reasonable and explained logically from my perspective why it might not be.

I've been here for the long term, and have made my very best recommendations, and tried to communicate factual information from long term experiences, and so I understand this can be perceived in many other ways I can't control.

In the end there are many paths to take, and our goal is not to sell to everyone, and certainly not whom blindly accept my words, but to those who our strengths have value. It is my duty and primary responsibility to my company to make those strengths known, and I beg your pardon to anyone who it may offend. I'm an open book on all technical details of our products and what I have not committed to memory, I have access to.

I'm better reached via phone or email. And so Colby and all others shopping I leave myself as a resource, and hope that whatever decision arrived at turns out to be ideal.

Have a great weekend to all.

G

[Alex DiPietro]

This video is for the sales guy that doesn't understand what a "4+1" axis saw is.this is my machine. It's a 4+1. No manual tilt here...

http://youtu.be/PIjVn6H2aTE

[Intel Power - Machine Div]

Hi Colby,

As far as personal background, please look on my web site on the ‘About Paolo’ page. Long story short, I worked in the Machine/equipment Design, Service, Maintenance fields for many Industrial applications. Before I started to sell machines and equipment a few years back, I really had no sales experience. So my approach to customers is from the technical and application side of things. I really don’t try to emphasize features unless the application demands them.

Before I started with Denver, like you, I did my research. I went to see a few installations, spoke with the installing technicians, and then I went to see the manufacturing facility in italy, mostly to meet the people behind the machines (owner, Managers, techs etc). Obviously, if I didn’t like what I saw, I wouldn’t be here today.

I know there has been some talk here about machine weight. I agree with Gerry that there are positives to having a heavier machine in some respects, but it comes with negatives as well. Where there is a Ying there is always a Yang. You have to keep always in mind your application. There is no sense in trying to kill a fly with a sledge hammer (takes more energy to swing the hammer then what is required to kill the fly)

As far as numbers and tangibles, all I can say is that all machines are engineered to have a specific design life. The limitation is the weakest link in the chain and most of the time it’s the electronics. For example, the typical Manufacture design life for electronic components are 15-20years. Manufacturer life cycle for electronic components is typically 10 years before the design is changed and they usually stock spares for 5 years after that. After this time, you have to look for an equivalent replacement and you may have to creative if it doesn’t fit. This is why when I rebuild machines, PC, CN Unit and sensors are always replaced/upgraded. Motors and drives generally last longer provided that they were not overloaded.

As far as bearings, guides and other wear items, the life depends greatly on how the machine was operated and maintained. Was it kept clean, lubricated etc. Most often when you have a premature failure its due to an exterior element getting in, insufficient maintenance or operation outside designed parameters.

As far as maintenance and service support, Ive worked on most of the major manufactures machines represented here. Some are more willing than others to work with local tech’s. Some will only allow their tech to service their machine. This could be a major problem if your machine is down and you have to wait for their tech to show up. On the flip side, it ensures quality of workmanship.

As far as Warranty, Most manufacturers just extend the component manufacturer warranty of typically 1 year. Idea here is to protect against manufacturing defects and not possible misuse.

hope this helps a bit

Paolo Saccon P.Eng
http://www.intelpowerinc.ca

[BellaTerra]

Paola it was a pleasure meeting you and for anyone looking for a complete install solution Paolo had all the bases covered including electrical design and installation of 3 phase power. Thank you Paolo for sharing.

[Ken Lago]

I don't think anyone here has any doubt Breton makes equipment and manufacturing solutions that all other machine manufactures are trying to go up against, some with success in certain areas but none in all the areas. If you go to Breton and say "This" is what I want to accomplish, then I guarantee they will give you the highest quality machinery and and a system that exceed your expectations. If you ask them to compromise on their values you should expect to be out of luck.
Every day I pray for the same quality Breton customer to walk in my door looking for stone, they tend to be smarter than average.

[Mark Lauzon]

I will be in Boise next week at ANOTHER K600 installation , if you any of you would like to see some real machines installed in the real world I would be happy to accommodate you.

I'll make another video while there and share it with you next week...because I can.

If other manufactures in the sawing game were really really smart they would of brought reasonably priced 5 axis mono block machines engineered for the American countertop market years ago and gained market traction with the concept like Sasso did...not playing catch-up several months from now....and the "me too" list of manufactures waking up has grown long indeed.

Go see an install or get a list of folks actually using the 5 axis monoblock saw they are asking you to buy...not one kinda like it. Good luck with that.

Ken...I found this picture for you...it's our bigger one. That's Mario (the owner) standing next to a 40hp k900.

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[Collier]

If you go to Breton and say "This" is what I want to accomplish, then I guarantee they will give you the highest quality machinery and and a system that exceed your expectations. If you ask them to compromise on their values you should expect to be out of luck.

This is what happened with us a year ago. We are a small company and we were in the market for a used machine. Everyone at Breton went above and beyond to help us. I spent many hours on the phone with Ger and Tech support before we even owned a machine. As of now we have been Breton customers for 10 months and couldn't be happier. Everything is what they said it would be, if not better, they don't sugarcoat anything, and I like that style. Next time we are in the market for a machine, Ger will be my first phone call.

[granitemworld]

Paolo from Denver installed our Tecnika here in sunny Florida. Great Tech Honest guy.
PM if you have questions

[Ken Lago]

Just for you guys who may not know Mark very well, he always do what he say he's going to do and having him in your corner is a winning situation.
I bought the first fabcenter ever made through Mark, it was not even put together yet only a concept on paper. He worked his ass off developing this machine with the NW crew and a couple of months later it showed up at my shop, 2 days later I produced my first kitchen with it just like he promised it would. It's been 8 years and still running as intended.
You can take his word to any bank and they will cash it.

[BellaTerra]

I may have to steal that quote "You can take his word to any bank and they will cash it."

[Dan R.]

There are lot of GMM Brio saws out there. So, maybe every other one is playing catch up?

All things equal, I would buy from a sponsor. There are plenty of great choices in that category. I believe in supporting those who support the SFA and industry education. Do your homework, but buy with confidence.

[tim farr]

Colby, you are welcome to come to my shop and see a brio in action. Dave lovelock is about 2 hours from me and he has an intra. I'm sure he would be willing to host you as well

[Qualey Granite]

[Allstone]

[Allstone]

Just for you guys who may not know Mark very well, he always do what he say he's going to do and having him in your corner is a winning situation.
I bought the first fabcenter ever made through Mark, it was not even put together yet only a concept on paper. He worked his ass off developing this machine with the NW crew and a couple of months later it showed up at my shop, 2 days later I produced my first kitchen with it just like he promised it would. It's been 8 years and still running as intended.
You can take his word to any bank and they will cash it.

[T.J. Henderson]

LMAO 3 above posts!

[Mark Meriaux]

This video is for the sales guy that doesn't understand what a "4+1" axis saw is.this is my machine. It's a 4+1. No manual tilt here...
http://youtu.be/PIjVn6H2aTE

Alex,
You may be confusing others (definitely me) with your "+1" terminology. The saw you posted is a 5-axis machine. I watched it move through all 5 axes in the video.

"+1" nomenclature is typically used for the addition of a dedicated tool or motion used for a single process (like a separate fixed drill head, jigsaw, or rodding blade under the table). Or it designates an axis of motion that must be set and "locked" into a fixed position while the other axes are working.

[BellaTerra]

Mark, you are correct in that the 4+1 means that the fifth axis is indeed locked while the other four are interpolated. Usually this refers to the miter axis staying at one set angle while the remaining four are moving. For the most part as countertop crasftmen we would never need all five axis to be moving at the same time...

[Allstone]

This is a badass saw. Not a Tonka toy k600
https://youtu.be/6dyR1xgWK4E

[Allstone]

Or this witch is now represented by Intermac
http://www.donatonimacchine.eu/en/macch ... ho-725-cnc

[BellaTerra]

Oh if money were no option the machines one could buy

[Mark Lauzon]

Hello from freezing Idaho where we are installing another toy. I'll post an update later.

Welcome to the SFA site John Hill....love the memes, reminds me of the old days.

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[Collier]

[quote="Allstone"]You don't know me but I know something about you.

First it was funny. Now its Creepy

[Mark Lauzon]

10 years running a stone shop was long enough for one lifetime...it's a ton of really hard work...but this thread was about saws. I'd love to hear your take on those videos you posted. Like unpack it...explain why that system with little vacuum cups and shuttle tables actually makes sense. I've been to 100's of shops and never seen anything like that. Does anybody know anyone that owns one or has seen one in the field?