Hello All

Monetcristo · Post by **Monetcristo** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:52 pm

I just wanted to let you know that I think this is a great forum. I will join soon to get the full benefits of the Members Forum...as I've continuously been reminded by reading the forums.

I am in the process of opening up a fabrication shop in the Toronto area.

I've learned a tremendous amount from reading your posts.

I decided to get in the business because I have been out of work for 3 of the last 4 years. My background is finance and IT consulting to banks. During my downtime I was helping my father out in his renovation business. He uses various granite fabricators in the Toronto area. In the last year we've probably completed 10 kitchens and about 20 bathrooms. His experiences with the fabricators lead me to this business opportunity. I would characterize his experiences as not very good. The fabricators rarely meet their deadlines or agreed delivery dates, constant excuses, sometimes not even returning calls when missing install dates. Quality of finished product was pretty good but again these experiences lead me to believe that there is a business opportunity here.

So, I am going to give this a shot.

Your posts have helped me greatly in terms of what to consider business wise and equipment wise.

Thanks for your help!!

Dan

ChrisYaughn · Post by **ChrisYaughn** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:55 pm

Sounds like you have found a niche.

There is a learning curve.

Hope you make the opportunity count

sorry, couldn't resist....

dustinbraudway · Post by **dustinbraudway** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:06 am

Dan,

You need to spend some time at an actual working shop and see how stone work is done. Far from the finance world as you actually have to "make things". Alot of times things are out of your control. i.e. material breaks, machines break, trucks break, suppliers are slow to deliever, suppliers sell your material that was on hold, containers don't come to port on time, customs holds materials ect.....

Not to say that you couldn't learn how to do it, but it isn't just an easy way to make a buck.

clhilde · Post by **clhilde** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:11 am

It has been said this is the hardest business in the world

Andy Ross · Post by **Andy Ross** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:37 am

Show up on time, communicate clearly, have a decent product, invoice for the original quote and you should be successful in this business. There are a lot of knuckleheads in this business and its not hard to shine bright. The SFA, as you know, will be a HUGE assest. We're ready for your questions.....

CustomMarbleGraniteToo · Post by **CustomMarbleGraniteToo** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:06 am

Hello Montecristo.

Great on joining, it will definitely be the best investment in your business.

Please fill in the signature area on your profile so we know who we are talking to.

ALso we are having a workshop in August at my facility which is only about 3 -4 hours from Toronto.

You can register by clicking the WORKSHOPS tab above.

Hope to see you there.

RBatstone · Post by **RBatstone** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:31 am

Let me guess you are going to be cheaper faster and have the better quality

Carmine Pantano · Post by **Carmine Pantano** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:13 am

dustinbraudway wrote:Dan,

You need to spend some time at an actual working shop and see how stone work is done. Far from the finance world as you actually have to "make things". Alot of times things are out of your control. i.e. material breaks, machines break, trucks break, suppliers are slow to deliever, suppliers sell your material that was on hold, containers don't come to port on time, customs holds materials ect.....

Not to say that you couldn't learn how to do it, but it isn't just an easy way to make a buck.

Well said. This business is a lot harder than it looks. From the outside it's easy...start actually making something...that's another story. Go to shops outside your area and spend a day there, come to the workshop in August, etc. See what you're really getting yourself into.

Good luck in your new venture.

Burkie · Post by **Burkie** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:16 am

Truck wont break down. All employees will come to work on time and actually be at work every morning.

Machines start up exactly as they are supposed to every morning. There wont be hail or snow or rain that will cause a delay.

When you go to template the first job of the morning the General Contractor will have everything in place so there is no delay and you will make the second appointment perfectly on time, everytime.

A word of caution look before you leap and the grass is not always greener on the other side.

There are many variables in this business that are out of your control no matter how hard you try.

Go to the workshops, visit and spend time with actual shops who strive for the service attributes that you are aspiring to deliver. Then see what issues hinder their delivery sometimes despite their best efforts.

Regards

Monetcristo · Post by **Monetcristo** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:58 am

You covered most of the excuses I've heard. Now I'm beginning to think this is a makor part of doing business.

dustinbraudway wrote:Dan,

You need to spend some time at an actual working shop and see how stone work is done. Far from the finance world as you actually have to "make things". Alot of times things are out of your control. i.e. material breaks, machines break, trucks break, suppliers are slow to deliever, suppliers sell your material that was on hold, containers don't come to port on time, customs holds materials ect.....

Not to say that you couldn't learn how to do it, but it isn't just an easy way to make a buck.

Monetcristo · Post by **Monetcristo** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:02 am

Not cheaper but definitely more service focused.

quote="RBatstone"]Let me guess you are going to be cheaper faster and have the better quality[/quote]

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:10 pm

It is crazy easy to meet everyone's demands on their projects. Sounds like there is money to be made in Toronto for sure. I am surprised a city that large has no competent fabricators, could be a gold mine. Good Luck!

Monetcristo · Post by **Monetcristo** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:33 pm

Andy Ross wrote:Show up on time, communicate clearly, have a decent product, invoice for the original quote and you should be successful in this business. There are a lot of knuckleheads in this business and its not hard to shine bright. The SFA, as you know, will be a HUGE assest. We're ready for your questions.....

Well said.

Monetcristo · Post by **Monetcristo** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:42 pm

Nick wrote:It is crazy easy to meet everyone's demands on their projects. Sounds like there is money to be made in Toronto for sure. I am surprised a city that large has no competent fabricators, could be a gold mine. Good Luck!

I agree Nick. Working with my Dad, he's always stressed client satisfaction and customer service.

I'm sure there are many competent fabricators in the Toronto area (there are actually a ton of fabricators here) but I think that many ignore the customer service side of the business. I think this may be because there is a perception (erroneous I believe) that clients are only interested in the lowest price fabricator.

Monetcristo · Post by **Monetcristo** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:48 pm

CustomMarbleGraniteToo wrote:Hello Montecristo.

Great on joining, it will definitely be the best investment in your business.

Please fill in the signature area on your profile so we know who we are talking to.

ALso we are having a workshop in August at my facility which is only about 3 -4 hours from Toronto.

You can register by clicking the WORKSHOPS tab above.

Hope to see you there.

Thanks. Updated the signature area.

The workshops are great. I just think they should be held on weekends, or include maybe Friday or Monday.

Because for me, taking 3 days off work is rarely possible.

Joe Durfee · Post by **Joe Durfee** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:37 pm

In the grand scheme of things, 3 days off is nothing compared to the amount of information you will be shown and the contacts you will make.

Mark Gamble · Post by **Mark Gamble** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:43 pm

Hey Dan, feel free to give me a call or come see me in Barrie. I will do my best to help out.

Monetcristo · Post by **Monetcristo** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:52 pm

Mark Gamble wrote:Hey Dan, feel free to give me a call or come see me in Barrie. I will do my best to help out.

Thanks a lot Mark. I will be in touch once my business plans move farther along.

Rick George · Post by **Rick George** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:40 pm

Dan,
You have found the right place to get the info you will need. Sounds to me like your on the right track as far as customer service goes and with your fathers contacts and experience that will help you sell jobs. Stay focused on the service end of things as there are many out there that only care about price as you have found out. There is a lot to learn in this business as far as the fabrication end goes and you may want to look into partnering with a quality fabricator who can help you thru this. This is also where the workshops and getting around people who can help teach you the ins and outs of this business and the contacts that you will make will be priceless!!!!!!! If Mark Gamble is close enough he could be an invaluable contact and help to you... these are the types of relationships that will get you thru the tough times and these types of relationships are usually started face to face at workshops. There definetly isn't a "quick buck" to make in this business as to do the fabrication right it costs money, but with time and the proper goals you could build a very successful business as many others here have.

Good luck and start asking away!

Ken Lago · Post by **Ken Lago** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:11 am

Monetcristo wrote:
Nick wrote:It is crazy easy to meet everyone's demands on their projects. Sounds like there is money to be made in Toronto for sure. I am surprised a city that large has no competent fabricators, could be a gold mine. Good Luck!

I agree Nick. Working with my Dad, he's always stressed client satisfaction and customer service.

I'm sure there are many competent fabricators in the Toronto area (there are actually a ton of fabricators here) but I think that many ignore the customer service side of the business. I think this may be because there is a perception (erroneous I believe) that clients are only interested in the lowest price fabricator.

Dan, you don't know Nick yet, do you

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:23 am

What?

Todd B · Post by **Todd B** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:22 am

Dan

I believe you are very right in saying that most "stone masons don't concentrate on service" they don't here either! Well I should say they didn't until the R thing. My dumb ass managed to claim some small amount of fame in this very small (tiny) part of the world purely for the reasons you are stating. However I'm a ES dude with my head stuck up my ass because I love it. So I would listen to me to much.

Tip.

If you don't know what it's like to work with stone. I would start of with ES. This will give you the feel of processing. Meaning yes it's heavy as steel etc etc. Then once you think you have mastered it. Try natural stone.

From being a big user of ES I hit the el natural thing, thinking it was as easy as getting naked while drunk at Dan R's shop!

But it is far far from it.

I often have this conversation with cabinet guys. They say WOW I just found out that a slab of granite is like $xxxand your like $xxxx. That's crazy margins Todd like how much money are you making?

Once I have bitch slapped them and tell them (because I had a cabinet/kitchen. Co) that thier margins are more.(eg.spend $4500 for $12000 cabs only

Then i remind them its just like what you do but a lot NO shit loads more risky than cabinet making!

Andy Ross · Post by **Andy Ross** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:59 am

A slab costs $xxxx but so does most mistakes.....

Monetcristo · Post by **Monetcristo** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:57 pm

Thanks for all the great advice.

Working with my Dad we've actually installed small granite countertops for bathroom vanities but never did any seams.

We also do a lot of marble floor tile, some granite floor tile and lots of flagstone for outdoors.

What I could never understand is, if a granite guy is using the laser templator, why are they off so often? Why is it not a perfect fit? I'd say 10% of the time there are issues with the finished product.

Andy Ross · Post by **Andy Ross** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:28 am

The answer to that question is simple.....employees

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