Oversized Island Fee

[Beth Nagy]

Hi guys,

I am a Director of sales at a fabrication shop, looking for some advice. Our company currently charges to install oversized islands (anything over 24 SF), by way of a formula. My question is, do other shops do this? I have had our PR firm secret shop other companies and we can't find anyone who line items this charge. As the sales director, I want to reduce the cost for our clients but production does not. Any and ALL advice is appreciated!!!
An example of what we currently charge is below:

24SF island would be an additional $871.00

Thanks,

Beth

[mark s]

We have language in the boilerplate on our bids that assert that the bid is subject to revision after the field measure. This allows us to add a charge for additional install crew if necessary. As long as we submit the additional charge promptly after measure there usually isn't a problem. This occurs most often with large islands but can also occur on a more typical job where poor access requires additional installers.

We also have a note in our bidding spreadsheet that pops up to remind the estimator to include extra install labor for a jumbo island.

the added charge is typically more like $400 - $500 depending on how much travel time is needed for the extra installers.

hope this was helpful.

[CustomMarbleGraniteToo]

We have it in our verbiage that we have oversized pieces will have additional fees.

[Mark Meriaux]

I think 24sf is a pretty small setpoint for this type of charge (that's not even 450lbs). I do know that some companies charge when "extra" equipment or people are required. As far as I know, these are still considered "special situations" by most folks and there is no set formula that is widely applicable.

What ACTUAL additional expenses do you have when installing these islands? Do you send more guys? Have you invested in special equipment? If they cost you more, you can evaluate those costs and try and determine if there are other ways to minimize or eliminate them.

There are lots of transport options that make installing large islands easier than it was 10 years ago. Great things like Omni Cubed Pro Dolly carts, electric lift carts, tilting carts, etc. There is an investment in these extra items, but the payback is faster and SAFER installs, and better productivity with smaller install crews (2-3 guys).

Some instances where fabricators can justify charging more:

• Full slab islands where 5-6 people are needed to handle them. - Billing straight time for the additional help labor for the piece is typical, as you can send them on another job (or back to the shop) once the large island is in place.
  When crane (or other special equipment) rental is the best option for going above ground floor with large pieces.

[darrencapaul]

I typically add a flat fee between $300-$600, depending on the size of the piece, and what the entrance is like. No formula, just something I address on a case by case basis (estimate extra personnel costs, plus 50%). The install crew has several carts to choose from, and my two man install crew can usually handle up to a 40 square foot piece on their own with a two or three stair entry. Anything bigger or out of the ordinary and it's extra money.

[Ken Lago]

In my mind production should find ways to reduce cost and you as a sales director should find ways to sell other than based on price. Trying to reduce a customers cost on a job seems contrary to what a sales director should want to do.

[Ken Lago]

This post does seem to belong in the members lounge.

[Beth Nagy]

Hi Ken,

I'm brand new to the forum, please excuse if I posted in the wrong area.

[Matt Lansing]

We have rarely added charges for big islands, maybe a couple of times total and those times would have been for really ridiculous pieces. 24 square feet would be considered normal with no added charge being added.

[Dan R.]

Our installation pricing is in the bid, regardless of the size of the piece. (Not a separate line item)
Any added equipment expense is always an additional charge.

[kevinp]

Ours was in the labor, never a separate line item.

[GuyboR]

Hi Ken,

I'm brand new to the forum, please excuse if I posted in the wrong area.

Beth,

Ken mentioned to move it b/c you are talking prices. This forum (General Forum) can be seen by any homeowner that wants to google it.

What you are asking isn't something that necessarily needs to be moved b/c you are talking retail prices, not wholesale.

Big Tops......
24 sqft is "normal" installation. Even 110" by 42" can still be handled with two people. If I'm unsure if it is possible or not, I'll ask my installer if he thinks he will be needing additional help. If so, it gets added to the proposal....not line itemed out though.

[Omni Cubed Larry]

Beth, you got a lot of great responses very quickly from peers who genuinely want to help. This is the beauty of SFA and you should really consider joining.

What ever your formula is, it seems to calculate a bit high. It may be making you more profit on each job, but it could also be causing you to be less competitive on your bids.
Disclaimer: I am not a stone shop. I make jobsite material handling equipment that makes the install easier and safer. A 24SF island seems pretty normal (or even smaller than normal these days ) and is less than 500 lbs, so charging an extra $36 per SF (based on your example) to install that could loose you some jobs.

I like Mark's points here below...

.... What ACTUAL additional expenses do you have when installing these islands? Do you send more guys? Have you invested in special equipment? If they cost you more, you can evaluate those costs and try and determine if there are other ways to minimize or eliminate them. ....

[BellaTerra]

I definitely lean the other way on this. The bigger the island the happier I am of course to a certain point like full slab islands. Islands add a lot of square footage but not a lot of production time. I also would not add a separate line item for it but include whatever costs are associated in your price. Mark above made good suggestions to consider.

[topshop]

I agree that an additional charge or more labor charge is in order but the price you are charging is high and starts too low in the sq. ft size.

I installed a blue pearl sized 5' x 7 1/2' island a few weeks ago with one helper with only 2 steps to go up using the Omni cubed wheels. It was scary and I felt the strain but totally doable with 2 guys and the right tools. Honestly if we had more guys I don't think it would have been any easier because the carrying clamps keep the weight centered to your body. If we had more people everyone would have been holding the weight off centered and could possibly have been hurt.

[mikedean]

Anything over 25sq get extra Hundo charge for an extra guy.

[Todd Luster]

I seldom charge extra for big pieces.
In most cases the jobs requiring an extra guy sent out end up getting done faster because of the extra person being on site to help and usually a reduction in seams.
We typically prefer big pcs over more seams.

Situations requiring extra equipment like sky tracks, cranes, carpenters,etc sure it's an add.
Like others our estimates are based on information provided and may be subject to change after visit to jobsite.

[Carmine Pantano]

I seldom charge extra for big pieces.
In most cases the jobs requiring an extra guy sent out end up getting done faster because of the extra person being on site to help and usually a reduction in seams.
We typically prefer big pcs over more seams.

Situations requiring extra equipment like sky tracks, cranes, carpenters,etc sure it's an add.
Like others our estimates are based on information provided and may be subject to change after visit to jobsite.

x 2

[BrentP]

I don't start thinking about extra cost to install until it gets a good bit bigger than 4'x6'. I really don't add until the installation is enough of a logistical issue to warrant it. We're already making a good bit more on a job with a big island for comparatively less cost per sq ft (less polishing time per sq ft, less seaming time on site, etc) so I let the medium size islands and L-shapes slide.