Problems with Leathered Absolute Black Granite

[AJ25]

Hi All,
Our general contractor's fabricator recently installed leathered absolute black granite in our remodeled kitchen. We are having two major problems and I would appreciate any thoughts, suggestions and input from professionals here at the SFA.

Problem 1. Gray smudge or haze marks.
After installing the leathered AB countertops, the fabricator sealed them with 511 Impregnator Sealer. While the slabs looked very clean and even without much "movement" at the granite yard, the day after they were installed and sealed the counters looked awful...darker and lighter areas, "movement" and some haze and streaking.

After first sealer 511 was applied

After 511.jpg (686.94KiB)Viewed 14866 times

To make things worse, one of the other trades working in the kitchen left some rags on the counter which caused some gray stains on the counters. A few weeks later the fabricator came back, cleaned the counters with acetone, then applied a Color Enhancer/Sealer, but he didn't really dry it completely and said to not touch the counters for 24 hours. The "movement", streaking and stains were gone and the counters looked really nice, dark with almost a wet and shiny look (some areas were shinier than others though). However as we started using the counters, gray smudges or haze marks were developing.

After enhancer/sealer...seems to be rubbing off?

After Enhancer.jpg (320.34KiB)Viewed 14866 times

It was as though we were rubbing off the Enhancer/Sealer. Fabricator came back, stripped counters again with acetone and applied another Enhancer/Sealer, but dried it this time. Again it looked nice, even and with no stains or movement, but not as wet and shiny as the first time. However, as we use the kitchen the same gray marks are developing again. My guess is that the granite is too dense so the enhancer/sealer is just sitting on the surface and as we use the counters it is getting rubbed off thus exposing the duller grayer unsealed granite surface. Does that sound correct? I'm afraid if we strip the counters we are going to be back to the uneven, streaky, stained, dull gray counters in the first picture. What do you think and recommend?

Problem 2. Edge detail looks terrible.
We did a squared mitered edge. However it's jagged with sections that are dull, shiny and pitted.

Jagged and pitted edge

Jagged Edge.jpg (334.66KiB)Viewed 14866 times

The fabricator says that is the only way the edge can be done because of the leathered finish. The enhancer helped hide the edges but when it is stripped it is very noticeable because parts are darker and other parts are lighter. If we can keep the dark enhancer then we can live with the edge the way it is. But if we have to strip the counters and leave them unsealed so they aren't as dark, then the edge looks terrible and we aren't sure what can be done. Please help!

Thanks,
AJ

[Ken Lago]

You are correct about the sealer/enhancer being the problem. I recommend striping the sealer and leaving it natural. The pitting on the edge can be fixed with epoxy. Absolute Black is so dense that normal leather procedures does not work, it usually involve sand blasting among other things and that is why you should never expect the edge to have the same finish as the factory made surface. Honed, full polish or chiseled edge is what I would offer my customers that choose the stone you got. I suggest you get your fabricator to fix the pitting on the edge and possibly run a 800 grit polishing pad as a final step.

[graffster]

x 2 it needs no sealer as far as the edge detail it needs some attention i.e. ether glue or a bigger roll. imo

[Justzack]

I just typed a long response and it vanished. So here is the short one. Edge detail needs filled and polished to match factory color. Probably 800 grit. Strip the old enhancer sealer off. I have had luck using tiger ager and leaving it set for a few hours and then buffing off with towels and cleaning the greasy feeling off with denatured alcohol. I have a couple jobs of that stone out with no problems. Still dark as the day they went in.

[AJ25]

Thanks for the feedback!

What do you recommend using for stripping? The last two times he used acetone and they were gray, hazy with streaks and "movement" (like the first picture above) until he applied the enhancer/sealer. So I'm afraid of stripping and leaving them natural. Is there an enhancer that is NOT also a sealer so nothing gets left on the surface? Will the Tiger Ager Justin is recommending create a darker more uniform appearance without leaving sealer on the surface that will get rubbed off?

As for the edge, he is saying polishing the edge (800 grit) will make it real shiny not matching the rest of the stone. Do you agree? It's shiny in certain areas now, and where the leathered texture meets the shiny edge it almost looks like the leathered surface is a laminate pealing or chipping away with the shiny underneath showing through (if that makes any sense)

Edge closeup.jpg (487.25KiB)Viewed 14817 times

Thanks again for all the input and feedback!
AJ

[Justzack]

You are going to get the shiny edge no matter what because he won't match the texture. He may try brushes but I never had any luck with that stone texturing with a brush. If he strips with acetone it will need cleaned before anything else is applied or you will get streaks

[topshop]

I have had luck stripping excess sealer off honed surfaces with a blue cleaner pad (like the ones the floor guys use) and acetone.

[RBatstone]

Looks likea mitered edge with chips

[Demetri]

You will never get that seam even unless you do as suggested. Polish the seam 800 grit and call it a day. It's nature of the beast on that stone.

They can hit the mitered edge with texture pads, only end up with the same look. The epoxy along the seam will pit faster and deeper, due to the stones density.

[GMR-Geremy]

We have used a red floor pad with aqua mix deep stone clean to strip anything laying on the surface of black absolute honed or textured. It works great. As for sealing black absolute, we recommend never sealing it. It is too dense, and with a honed surface we have seen ghost rings appear when a seal is attempted.
Hope this helps.

[AJ25]

Our designer is warning us that if we strip the counters and leave them unsealed, the leathered AB granite will show fingerprints and drive us crazy. What is your experience with fingerprints on leathered absolute black unsealed counters?

[Dan R.]

Finger prints will not be a problem on leathered stone. Your designer is wrong.

As others have stated, AB will not accept a sealer. The solids remains on top of the stone and cause various messes, while offering no protection. Sealing AB is asking for trouble.

If choosing between fingerprints and the existing mess. I would choose fingerprints every time!

[topshop]

AB will accept some sealer but the excess needs to be buffed away. You will see more finger prints from a poor job of applying too much sealer than not sealed at all. The excess sealer needs to be buffed off with a wool bonnet like a car buffer after it is applied and allowed to sink in.

Most designers have no clue about stone care and proper installation applications so don't take any designers word for gospel.

[Dan R.]

The conventional wisdom is that AB WILL NOT ACCEPT sealer. To advise otherwise seems reckless, imo.

You give anyone information with caveats and they hear what they want to hear. DO NOT SEAL AB!!!! A recipe for disaster, like the photos in this thread.

[Mark Meriaux]

Our designer is warning us that if .....

Your designer is exactly that - excellent at selecting colors and visualizing how things will look together. Here you are communicating with stone professionals. We know our business as well as your designer knows theirs. Just as sealer won't penetrate AB, neither will grease or oil, meaning that it will be easier to clean. It may show fingerprints from greasy fingers, but most everyday household surface cleaners will work at removing them easily. Please listen to the advice here - no sealer on Absolute Black.

[AJ25]

Will stripping the enhancer/sealer and leaving the leathered absolute black granite without any sealer also take away the darker color the enhancer added? We like the darker color and would like that to remain if possible. Thoughts?

[Ken Lago]

Find out exactly what sealer was used and then we should be able to recommend how to remove it. Acetone work on some and others not so much.

[Dan R.]

The sealer can be stripped off. Different sealers require different methods.

There are some color enhancer products available that will achieve the darker look without the mess.

[AJ25]

There are some color enhancer products available that will achieve the darker look without the mess.

Given our situation, which color enhancer would you recommend to get the darker look without the mess?

[topshop]

"The conventional wisdom is that AB WILL NOT ACCEPT sealer. To advise otherwise seems reckless, imo."

Conventional (wisdom?) is safer but we also know not all stones called AB are the same material. Therefore if you apply sealer and remove the excess properly you are adding a margin of safety....."imo"....

An Ager type product would keep the dark look for longer than any other product but be sure the excess is wiped off to avoid any sticky area's.

[Dan R.]

All AB stones in the NA market appear to be Indian Black, at least in our market. I did see Cereser processing African Black, while in Italy. African Black is denser than Indian Black, so.....

FYI: Ager is a specific brand. The product category is enhancers. There are many that work in several different ways.

One could apply sealer and then remove the excess properly. In which case you would be removing statistically 100% of the sealer. What actually was accomplished, except the the feeling of false security? Total waste of time, product and money. Great advice!

You are correct, in that all of the excess needs to be removed. Even if enough excess is removed to avoid sticky areas, the remainder of product sits on the top and will cause problems with streaking, rings and other manifestations from daily use.

The pictures posted are proof. I am sure the fabricator wiped the excess dry and the top was not sticky. Add daily use and this is what you will have. Add a little heat (pizza box, warm casserole dish, etc and you will compound the problems.

[AJ25]

Sounds like the consensus is for us to strip the counters and leave them unsealed. But I'm still trying to find out which enhancer to use that will make the granite darker without the mess that is happening with sealers. What product do you recommend? Ager?

[GMR-Geremy]

stripper will not change the darkness of the stone.

if you want to use enhancer, you can try Akemi super Darkener, or Superior ICE, but these all leave the potential for your current problem to present itself again.

[topshop]

You will be hard pressed to find any product that enhances stone and is not a "sealer". The manufacturers of these product may or may not call them "sealers" but in some way they all seal or fill the pores of the stone no matter how small they are. You are being lead down a path of futility.

[Dan R.]

This is very true. the trick is to know which ones work better than others and in what situations. By their very nature, enhancers are sealers.