Is this man an idiot?

[ageless]

I had some funny engineering comics to post but got busy. When I was in school my dad would clip some funny ones on the refrigerator for me to see. My favorite has always been the one with the client wanting a swing on a tree.

[topshop]

I had an issue with that at a warehouse in Charlotte, NC. I saw the guys in there moving 2 at once and told them not to do that with my slabs - sure enough they did it and broke one of my 3 matching slabs. Luckily there were 4 left in that bundle and they could grab another but it was right after I told them. It was the owner himself that broke the slabs even. Some people are just plain stupid and will not listen to reason or their customers.

[BC Granite and Marble]

Its amazing people still do this, we have had several slabs over the years fall to the ground coming off the delivery truck. One supplier was so bad we would take a roller cart and set by the truck so we could go strait to a cart and not bounce it through the parking lot with the lift. We also call it a shark bite. When we see slabs with them we knock the bite out with a hammer and grab below the bite and then tell the rep the new adjusted size and inform them if we need an extra slab because of their stupidity they will need to greatly reduce the price of the extra slab or they can take the slabs with the bite back.

[PietraNaturaleinc.]

We have had similar situations with some of the slab truck drivers. They want us to pick 2 at a time or unload one whole side of the truck first, making it lean terribly so when they unband the other side the slabs are close to vertical.

I tell them and my people, when on my property our safety protocol is always what we adhere to. If they cant we will find new suppliers. Much cheaper than a workmans comp claim or a tragic accident.

[Omni Cubed Larry]

.... One supplier was so bad we would take a roller cart and set by the truck so we could go strait to a cart and not bounce it through the parking lot with the lift. ...

Good idea. Like I said in my last post, the dynamic forces the slab and the clamp sees are crazy high when the lift hits a bump and the slab is way out there on a boom. BUT, a roller cart with a full slab can be just as dangerous in a different way (tipping). Maybe we need to make a bigger full slab cart to help with unloading trucks. We made our own for helping unload aluminum bars at our shop. The forklift can stay with the truck and keep picking the bundles off while the carts move the material away. It is way more efficient than driving the forklift back and forth.

[Jeff H.]

Update..... Mike from Italia Granite called my designer and told her that I was no longer allowed on the property and that she should use someone else in the future. He then gave her 3 other fabricating companies. Thankfully she knew what had happened prior to this call and told me she will be shopping for slabs elsewhere. I just got off the phone with their sister company in Utah and the gentleman I spoke with was concerned about what is going on in Reno and he apologized for everything. I got the feeling that Mike isn't the owner as he claimed. I will be expecting more to come.

[ageless]

Call OSHA.

[Darryl Miller]

I was told by one of our local Cosmos drivers that the accident last Monday in Raleigh (that killed one man) was due to a slab coming out of the clamp while being moved in the air with the overhead crane. I do not know if that slab was cracked like the ones we have been discussing, but it does give pause to wonder. I am starting to find out that a lot of the suppliers here are doing this.

[innstone]

Update..... Mike from Italia Granite called my designer and told her that I was no longer allowed on the property and that she should use someone else in the future. He then gave her 3 other fabricating companies. Thankfully she knew what had happened prior to this call and told me she will be shopping for slabs elsewhere. I just got off the phone with their sister company in Utah and the gentleman I spoke with was concerned about what is going on in Reno and he apologized for everything. I got the feeling that Mike isn't the owner as he claimed. I will be expecting more to come.

Yes! Nothing like someone trying to throw their weight around and then they find out they're a lightweight. :=D>

[Curtis R. Marburger]

what I started doing when you pick up a slab is pause a little coming to abrupt stop with forklift anticipating slab to show its smiley. That way if slab lets loose it lets loose on the truck still on rack .

I doubt you are going to see this practice of handling slabs 2 at a time with clamp stop especially in warehouse behind close doors before you even get there

[Jeff H.]

You're right Curtis. I really think there should be a severe fine from OSHA (much as I don't want them involved) if proved a company lifts 2 at a time. This is a serious ongoing problem that puts us at risk. I have no doubt people have been killed because of this practice.

[Dave.Scott]

A letter that I sent one of our vendors:

Branden,
As you know we had a near miss yesterday with a 2cm slab of Pallissandro. This was our third 2cm slab from xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (you), that has broken in a semi-circular crack around the lifter and was lost this year. Fortunately, in all instances, no one has been hurt except my checking account.

I have seen these cracks before and have investigated to find the cause. I am certain that these cracks are due to having more than one slab being lifted and moved at one time; I am happy to discuss in detail how I know this is the source of the cracking. When I was in xxxxxxxxxx last October both xxxxxxxxxx and I witnessed your crew moving more than one slab at a time in one lifter. I have also been told by xxxxxxxxxx that this is standard operating procedure in your facility.

I implore you to cease this practice. This is a safety issue that I cannot allow to expose my employees to any more. Until I can be assured that you no longer operate in this manner I am forced to cease purchasing any 2cm material, 3cm schist and other metamorphic stone slabs from xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (you).

Thank you

[Mark DeFusco]

As a dealer for Abaco let me put in my $0.02. Lifting more than one slab can cause lack of friction issues also (besides the breakage issue Dan already spelled out). All of the friction lifters rely on gravity and none that I know of are made for lifting more than one slab at a time. While it is slower to move them that way theoretically, if there is an accident the delay far outweighs the delay of safely moving slabs, and that is not even considering if there is an injury or a fatality.

When we sell an ALG75 on our site I always call the customer back and find out why they bought that one. If they tell me they are lifting two pieces at once I tell them that despite the fact they have been doing it like that it is unsafe. Sometimes they purchase the ALG75 because they are using it on 3cm stone and figure that the lifter is fine since it closes to 3cm. We all know that since there is no standardization in our industry that a 3cm slab can be anywhere from 2.8 - 3.2cm and this lifter will not work at all on most of those due to lack of friction. I generally talk the customer into spending less and getting the ALG50 which will close to 1.5cm and open to 5cm.

This man may believe the time saved is justified or he just doesn't realize how unsafe a practice this is.

Mark DeFusco

[Omni Cubed Larry]

..... if there is an accident the delay far outweighs the delay of safely moving slabs, and that is not even considering if there is an injury or a fatality....

Yes, very good point.

[deepwater]

I am waiting on Omni to come out with there's !!!

[Curtis R. Marburger]

its really never safe moving slabs and should always expect the unexpected .
The safer way to move slabs is with cables or straps and by pass the clamp
cables or straps are a little slower with time a stone cutter can get real good with cables

[Mike Miller]

Hi Jeff,

This is Mike Miller, the owner of Italia Granite. After doing business together for 14 years, I thought you might know who I am, but I guess not. I assure you, my employees and I know you and your temper very well. Over the years we have only tried to be professional and serve you. In return, we have only been met with anger and impoliteness. We always have be on guard with you; your temper can explode at any second.

I don't say this to offend. I think you are a fine craftsman. However, I see what your temper has cost you over the years in terms of reputation and success in the industry. People like me and several others in the area have gone on to make fortunes in this business, while you are still working out of a storage unit with 2 employees. More than a thousand custom jobs per year go through my warehouse in Sparks, Nevada alone, but none of them are sent to you. I just don't want to subject my employees to your anger issues.

We did load these 2 slabs at the same time, although we normally would not. When you stopped by the warehouse to load this job, I told my employees to load your trailer as quickly as possible so not to give you a reason to blow your temper. Of course, you did go off on us. But then again, you came in itching for a fight. If not this, you would have found another reason to blow up at us.

This is where Italia Granite and Incline Granite Werks go our seperate ways. I'm a wealthy man and I just don't need the hassle. If one of your customers come into my warehouse, I'll just suggest they go to a different supplier. Don't worry, we are not going to bad mouth you. That is not how I do business. I think about a guy like you, if you had just been more of a bridge builder and not a bridge burner, you could have been a major player in this industry.

Best of luck to you Jeff. I sincerely mean it.

Michael Miller
Owner, Italia Granite

[Dan R.]

Loading slabs 2 at time is negligent. Doing it knowing it could cause harm to someone is bordering on criminal, IMO. Nothing is worth causing injury to another in this industry. Why not man up and ban him before he busts you out on a public forum?

It is impressive that 1000 high end jobs come through your warehouse . Are they there to choose slabs or fabricators? Sounds like you are the king maker in Sparks custom fab. I suspect you are grateful they come to your warehouse to choose material and are not as abrasive as you are here, hiding behind a keyboard.

What does the size of his shop have to do with the fact of unsafe practices at your business?
What does your being a wealthy man (admittedly self proclaimed ) have do to with your blatant disregard for your client's safety and that of fellow industry people? What does that say about Mike Miller?

[ageless]

Why does it matter the size of his shop or your wealth? I operate out of small shop and do just fine.

[Ken Lago]

Maybe Jeff is a grumpy but so am I, that still doesn't excuse you from putting peoples lives in danger by using unsafe material handling methods. Shame on you Michael Miller.
Spread the word Jeff, fools like this only get it when their actions start hurting their pockets.

[Mark DeFusco]

Mike MIller,
You said you are " not going to bad mouth you" about Jeff, but in your letter you said:

"I know you and your temper very well. "

"In return, we have only been met with anger and impoliteness. "

"your temper can explode at any second."

"I see what your temper has cost you over the years in terms of reputation and success in the industry."

"you are still working out of a storage unit with 2 employees. "

"More than a thousand custom jobs per year go through my warehouse in Sparks, Nevada alone, but none of them are sent to you. "

"I just don't want to subject my employees to your anger issues."

"Of course, you did go off on us. "

"But then again, you came in itching for a fight. "

I sincerely hope that the other fabricators see the great letter you wrote. I am sure they will want to come running to spend their money with you. You come off as a # 1 A__hole. Regardless of how wealthy you are or the relationships you have or do not have with your customers, An Abaco ALG or NGL lifter should never be used to lift more than a single slab. Never under any circumstances!

[Alex DiPietro]

Well I guess the answer to this threads title (It this man an idot?) is yes!

Your response was quite possibly one of the rudest, most condescending posts I've read here. You may not loose a lot of business from your childish slander. But behold! The power of the internet. Being an **Shole publicly WILL cost you, real dollars. Whether you realize it or not, this response has already cost you sales! I for one wouldn't buy from Italia Granite after reading this garbage. But then again the fortune you made hasn't made your fantastic business reach my market yet. (small, insignificant place called New York City)

[BC Granite and Marble]

Wow Mike you are a brave soul to openly admit telling your employees to engage in dangerous behavior that could result in death or sever injury. And to top it off you brag about your great wealth, you sir better pray no one gets hurt from slabs that came from your business or your great wealth will be gone!! Usually wealthy people are smarter than this. A wealthy and wise man once told me a whale that doesn't surface can't get harpooned. You may want to re-think your policy on lifting two slabs at once as now you will be found guilty of knowing the dangers and ignoring the possible consequences. Which spells huge liability for you.

[Jeff H.]

Mike, I don't know where to begin. I've been here in business for 23 years and there are many good reasons for it. One is I choose to stay small as I can control the quality (which is very good) and minimize mistakes to keep a good profit level. I could have gone big like Radtke Marble and possibly suffered the same fate (no longer in business). Funny you should slam my little shop but it's very efficient and does just about anything the large shop can do. There are some here that would like to go back to a more simple business.

The slam on my temper is way out of line. I do have a huge lack of tolerance for incompetence and will call people out on it! Yes, I have had a couple of problems with your company like the time you sold my client 5 slabs of unacceptable Madre Preola with gaging ranging from 9/16' to 13/16" throughout the middle of the slabs. You refused to compensate the client for the cut slab and handled the situation very poorly. There's a post in here on that incident also although I don't remember if I named your company. I can go on with more examples but the common thread is your incompetence and poor quality material has been at the heart of every problem. I came in looking for a fight???? Fact, I saw what your guys were doing and went over to them never to load 2 at once on my trailer. Fact, you came off the forklift in an aggressive manner toward me and put your finger in my face. If my temper was so bad I would have jacked you up right there!!!! You then continued to badger me until I pulled out of the bay. Who was looking for a fight? By the way, I've spoke with two other fabricators on this forum that have witnessed your practice of 2 slabs on the clamp so don't lie about it. All you had to do was realize your dangerous practice and everything would have been fine. You decided to go down the other road!

[james d]

All I have to say is wow!!! So is the problem here in North Nevada,
All I know is that somene is coming up soon