HELP! Shop might replace me & I need to stop it

[raymond7m]

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-bu ... r-employee

This link may help you out. Based on our limited view, you are clearly an employee of the business, not a sub contractor.

These rules stemmed from companies paying its employees as subs to avoid paying taxes. It was rampant in the 90's and the government cracked down on these practices. If your boss, both old and new, get audited, it sounds like they will be on the hook for a large tax bill and crippling fines. Legitimate business or not, they are required to classify their employees properly or Uncle Sam will catch up to them at some point.

[the_dionysian_1]

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-bu ... r-employee

This link may help you out. Based on our limited view, you are clearly an employee of the business, not a sub contractor.

These rules stemmed from companies paying its employees as subs to avoid paying taxes. It was rampant in the 90's and the government cracked down on these practices. If your boss, both old and new, get audited, it sounds like they will be on the hook for a large tax bill and crippling fines. Legitimate business or not, they are required to classify their employees properly or Uncle Sam will catch up to them at some point.
[

We're all on regular payroll now. I think the total time we were 1099 was about 4 months or so. Then the business changed ownership. We were still 1099 for about a month after that. Then we all signed & turned in W4s.

After coming from my previous place of business (that closed it's doors due lack of customer traffic), it doesn't surprise me that this place would stretch the limits of legality. The shop is full of granite dust so bad that really cleaning it out to get to a point where it's manageable again would take probably a professional industrial cleanup crew about a day. When I started here, they had only three 12" by 12" drains in the floors & the floor weren't sloped to the drains. So it was a bear to get the dust into the drains. And the old owner hated the idea of paying people to clean up. That attitude alone had me nervous from the start.

Now that it's under the new ownership, & we have a Fusion, they installed a wrap around drain system that goes all across the shop. The floor still isn't sloped very good, but it's way easier to get the dust to the drains. But that doesn't solve the granite dust being all over the place in hard to reach places where you just can't spray it & chase it to some drains.

[Daniel]

All you can do is state your position to the actual owner succinctly. I'd cut out all the extra whining and try to make it clear on paper. An average kitchen takes 1 hour to template, 1 hour to clean up, and 1 hour to program (or whatever it takes you). So 3 total hours minus any driving that would have to be done anyway to get it ready for cutting. He bought half a million worth of digital equipment, so I don't think he plans to go backwards. Then it takes an hour to cut a slab on the Fusion that includes seam prep, cutouts, etc. Tell him you'll John Henry his old man and see who wins over the course of ten jobs. Someone at Park must have told him during the pitch that he'd have hiccups in the transition, and that they would be human error. One of the best parts of machines is that they rarely mistakes themselves.

Also, it does sound weird that you are more reliant on your manual template than your digital template.

[the_dionysian_1]

All you can do is state your position to the actual owner succinctly. I'd cut out all the extra whining and try to make it clear on paper. An average kitchen takes 1 hour to template, 1 hour to clean up, and 1 hour to program (or whatever it takes you). So 3 total hours minus any driving that would have to be done anyway to get it ready for cutting. He bought half a million worth of digital equipment, so I don't think he plans to go backwards. Then it takes an hour to cut a slab on the Fusion that includes seam prep, cutouts, etc. Tell him you'll John Henry his old man and see who wins over the course of ten jobs. Someone at Park must have told him during the pitch that he'd have hiccups in the transition, and that they would be human error. One of the best parts of machines is that they rarely mistakes themselves.[

Every time I try to talk to him about this sort of thing, he cuts me off when I begin to go into any details & says something like "whatever. I don't know about all that, I just know this isn't making any money. It's gotta stop/go faster/be less/etc" I doubt I'd make it to the John Henry part. Also, if I did make it that far, his old man would cheat. How? Well, he'd draw fast on the template, simply cut rectangles & would never mention how he had to fix things on site because it didn't fit perfect. I've been on his installs & it often involves trimming stove spaces in the kitchen (yes, dry grinding & polishing in the customer's home), installing w/sink centers off 1/2 to 1" or so, blah blah blah. Not all the time, but more often than I've ever been used to.

Also, it does sound weird that you are more reliant on your manual template than your digital template.
[

You mean my hand dimensions? I've experienced plenty a job where the laser was off much more than 1/16th inch. Lasers are great, but they're only as good as the surface they're shooting. So corrections need to be made on almost every job. Some aren't bad at all. Maybe 1/8" off from actual dimensions. Others can be over 1/4" off. I don't bother fixing the point if it's say a backside of a peninsula where a large overhang is going to be. Or even an open end overhang. But something like a stove space or diagonal corner, I don't like to hear that my overhangs were more than 1/16" off. The way to do that is to correct the laser when it makes mistakes based upon obtuse angles where post-it tape doesn't completely solve the issue. I know there's targets & whatnot but if existing countertops are in place, then you're just guessing at placement of the target in some situations. Perhaps I'm divulging too much information into my methods.

It boils down to this: I believe I NEED to have a plan just in case my digital equipment gets broken/stops working/power outage/anything that prevents me from using my digital scan. At any time. If I'm just about to the point of programming in AlphaCAM & the computer catches on fire (extreme & not likely I know, but stay with me here), I could successfully draw the countertops on the slabs by hand within 1/16" of accuracy in full confidence. So it's not just that I know the laser is going to be off a little bit here & there. It's that I can continue making countertops should all of our digital equipment break/fail/get stolen/whatever.

[the_dionysian_1]

I know most of my posts here probably sound pessimistic, but I think I'm going to stick it out. The owner & his family all went on vacation this week & everything has been running smooth for the granite business (not for the flooring store, however). Several people have already mentioned how much smoother things seem to be without them around.

While I'm currently considering some offers I've gotten from this post, I do like where I live & am obligated to be here until March at least. I'm not turning anything down. I'm just going to see how it goes for a little while. Perhaps all they needed was some cool down time? I do know the new owner was nervous as all hell to be away. Once he hears we've been sailing along smoothly, perhaps he'll realize that micro-managing hasn't really been helping. As I do believe I can run this business, I just need to actually be allowed to execute that capacity.

[the_dionysian_1]

All you can do is state your position to the actual owner succinctly. I'd cut out all the extra whining and try to make it clear on paper. An average kitchen takes 1 hour to template, 1 hour to clean up, and 1 hour to program (or whatever it takes you). So 3 total hours minus any driving that would have to be done anyway to get it ready for cutting.
[

I think I will do this "on paper" at least to have a clear description of the time it takes. Idk if I'll attempt it from memory or actually take the jobs I've done & jot down the info. Heck, maybe both just to see the two for myself. I'm thinking of posting it here as an attachment, but part of me wants to keep my methods to myself.

[the_dionysian_1]

UPDATE!

I'm attaching a screen cap of a file I've made in Excel to help me get a visual on how long my jobs are taking (just my part of it). Look it over & let me know if you have some critique about certain steps taking too long, or if maybe I shouldn't even have a "wait for approvals" column (as that's going to be wildly varied from job to job & might not be crucial information as it doesn't pertain to how good or bad I do, but it does point at why a certain job may have taken so long to actually get done). Feel free to ask questions about it. These are all the jobs that I had specific enough information that I could go back & jot down very close estimates as to how long it took to do certain steps. There are plenty more jobs I've done outside of these.

[Kowboy]

That Excel thing smells like overthinking to me. These are countertops; we're not building a space telescope. Geesh.

[the_dionysian_1]

That Excel thing smells like overthinking to me. These are countertops; we're not building a space telescope. Geesh.
[

While that's brief, it's not concise or helpful. What am I supposed to take away from that?

[Ken Lago]

I cannot understand a thing about that spread sheet. The numbers you put in there make no sense.

[the_dionysian_1]

I cannot understand a thing about that spread sheet. The numbers you put in there make no sense.
[

They're all minutes. Each column is a step in the process of a job. Contained in the cells of each column are the number of minutes each "step" took. Each row is a job. I hope that helps clarify

[Ken Lago]

Please explain the 40 something hours jobs? Anything more than 4 total hours is unusual for me.

[the_dionysian_1]

Please explain the 40 something hours jobs? Anything more than 4 total hours is unusual for me.
[

I probably shouldn't put wait time for approvals. It makes it look a lot worse when people don't just respond to their emails right away. The job is ready, but they have to approve of the grain pattern & seams etc.

[Dan R.]

After reading your posts, I want to fire you myself!

[Kowboy]

That Excel thing smells like overthinking to me. These are countertops; we're not building a space telescope. Geesh.
[

While that's brief, it's not concise or helpful. What am I supposed to take away from that?
[

While you're piddling around in the office with Excel, I'm kickin' tops out the door and making money.

[Jonathan]

[Jonathan]

After reading your posts, I want to fire you myself!
[

Can you imagine dealing with employees like this all day every day?

[the_dionysian_1]

Well I'm sorry I asked for help.

[Jonathan]

Well I'm sorry I asked for help.
[

You did get help, just not what you wanted.

You need to simplify things. Shorten things down.

[the_dionysian_1]

Well I'm sorry I asked for help.
[

You did get help, just not what you wanted.

You need to simplify things. Shorten things down.
[

That's obvious. But what? I was looking for something specific. Anyone can play captain hindsight & say "what you should've done was something better." Great advice. I'm always trying to improve. But just tossing a "hey, don't take so long" isn't exactly helpful. Believe me, I get it. What I do is taking longer than what you guys do. But I asked some questions that didn't get answered? How long are your installs when you just trust the laser every time? Do your installers have to dig out drywall? What's your overhang accuracy tolerance (how close to 1 1/2" overhang or 1 1/4" do you say it has to be before you call it wrong)? I mean, if you aren't double checking the laser's measurements, and the installers find that an overhang is off by 1/4" from one end to the other, isn't that countertop cut wrong?

[BellaTerra]

Maybe you have a bad laser or don't know how to use it properly. Our 2D3D is accurate to an 1/8" in 300'. Now I can't say I've done a piece that big but every piece we've shot properly with the laser has gone in without a hitch. I measure the lengths between walls to confirm the laser got a good read and then pack it up. You should be templating 2-3 kitchens in the time it takes you to do one. Let the laser do the math that's why the owners bought it. I template 4-6 kitchens in an 8 hour day and I take my sweet time.

I have a feeling you aren't looking to change your ways but are looking for confirmation that you are doing it right and you aren't.

Please tell me you did your spread sheet on your own time and not company time?

This thread literally makes me wonder if I'll ever be able to trust an employee to do the templating and programming...

[the_dionysian_1]

Maybe you have a bad laser or don't know how to use it properly. Our 2D3D is accurate to an 1/8" in 300'. Now I can't say I've done a piece that big but every piece we've shot properly with the laser has gone in without a hitch. I measure the lengths between walls to confirm the laser got a good read and then pack it up. You should be templating 2-3 kitchens in the time it takes you to do one. Let the laser do the math that's why the owners bought it. I template 4-6 kitchens in an 8 hour day and I take my sweet time.

I have a feeling you aren't looking to change your ways but are looking for confirmation that you are doing it right and you aren't.

Please tell me you did your spread sheet on your own time and not company time?

This thread literally makes me wonder if I'll ever be able to trust an employee to do the templating and programming...
[

Yes. Spreadsheet was done on my own time.

I am looking to change my ways. My previous employer was more anal retentive than me. So everything I've expressed is something that used to be normal for me. Dialing it back is something that I'll have to get used to. I don't normally just blindly trust the laser. Especially on obtuse angled shots.

[Kowboy]

" How long are your installs when you just trust the laser every time?"

This is like asking how much a car costs. It depends. Two good guys might drop 30 tops in a hotel in a day. The same two guys may spend all day fussy-fussin' with Ms. Waterfront Highrise Condo's 90 SF the next.

"Do your installers have to dig out drywall?"

That's f#^$!ng hillbilly. Drywall diggers should be banned from this industry.

"What's your overhang accuracy tolerance (how close to 1 1/2" overhang or 1 1/4" do you say it has to be before you call it wrong)? I mean, if you aren't double checking the laser's measurements, and the installers find that an overhang is off by 1/4" from one end to the other, isn't that countertop cut wrong?"

No. If a wall is crooked and the cabinets follow the wall and you put your front edge on plane, the overhang has to vary. Math is cruel like that. Tell 'em the cabinets are out-of-plane at template and to have them changed or they're getting varying overhang.

[Mtodd62406]

LOL,I'm dying here. No one is suggesting you blindly follow anything, in fact multiple times we've told you to check all dimensions with a tape measure before leaving. Also if I hear one more f'n obtuse angle excuse I will literally go ape s*** in here

[tim farr]

Spend 300k on digital equipment and then measure the job with a tape and a square to double check your digital template......NOT!!!!!!