Heat from sun opening bench top joins

[Jamie.Mansel.AUS]

Hi All,

We are a large stone bench top manufacturer in Western Australia and we mainly use Caesarstone. We are having issues with the heat from the Australian sun causing the stone joins to open up. I am thinking that the heat is causing the stone to expand and contract under changing temperature which is popping the joins. When this occurs, we return to site and pull the tops apart, clean the joins and re-joining with Tenax. This usually does the trick but it's basically the same process as the original install.

Is anyone having the same issues with the joins opening from expansion due to heat? Any suggestions on preventing the joins from opening? What adhesives are you using to join your tops?

Thanks

[Shiny Alex]

We had this a lot here in NZ with Tenax. We swapped to Integra Adhesive and it's a lot stronger. We also Integra glue stone straps over the join if theres enough room in the units.

Being in Oz, you'd probably have a much bigger selection than us. Over here CDK are the only suppliers.

[Kowboy]

I doubt the joints are failing from sunlight. What type of shims do you use? Perhaps they're shrinking, pulling the stone out of plane, and thereby stressing the joint. If the shims are fully compressed, this would explain why the joints don't fail on the second go-round. If it were sunlight, the repaired joints should fail again.

[Dan R.]

I assume the Tenax you are referring to is is some form of polyester.
Polyester was never meant for joins,it evolved to that from fabricator use. Poly has many shortcomings.

Integra and Glue Boss make gunnable acrylics, suitable for outdoors.

[Rick George]

Many times when seams fail it is due to many factors... most seam failures I have seen are due to improper shimming or cabinet bases moving due to poor installation. Countertops need to be solidly shimmed and in plane with each other not causing any stress on the adhesive used in the seam. I have seen too many times, installers getting the tops "close" and then putting Gorilla grips on both sides of the seam to finalize the leveling and then glue the seam. If this is done, you must go back and add shims and make the tops solid otherwise your depending on your glue to hold an unsupported seam together.


Using the wrong glue could also add to the problem. You said the heat from the Australian sun... are these tops outside? If yes, polyester glues are made for indoor use only and will typically fail when used outdoors. You say you were using Tenax, which specific Tenax glue were you using?

Extreme heat could possibly be aiding in this failure as anytime a seam needs to be intentionally separated, you use heat to warm the glue and pop it free. I do not know anything about expansion and contraction of any quartz surfaces so hopefully someone else may be able to add to this but if it does expand and contract, that is another factor that would add to stress on the adhesive holding the seam together.

[JMarcella]

Glue issues aside, quartz outside in the sun?

[Rick George]

Glue issues aside, quartz outside in the sun?

I noticed that as well... great opportunity to repair the sun damaged quartz with some Tenax Quartz Toner!

[Dwallace]

[quote="Dan R."]I assume the Tenax you are referring to is is some form of polyester.
Polyester was never meant for joins,it evolved to that from fabricator use. Poly has many shortcomings.

Yes!

[Dan R.]

Not sure OP stated outside, simply heat. This could be through large expanses of windows also.

Ditch the poly!!

[Joe Durfee]

The first post from the Australian Burkhardt-Hensel Mafia Chapter! What a great day, I'm no longer alone among these people with lesser machinery!

Dan meant to say Glue Boss, not Stone Boss. Regardless, I would agree with ditching the poly and going to something more suitable.

[Jeff H.]

I would never recommend ES for outdoor use!

[Kowboy]

I would never recommend ES for outdoor use!

I'm not aware of any estone manufacturers that do.

[Mitch@ASW]

I would never recommend ES for outdoor use!

I'm not aware of any estone manufacturers that do.

I was always under the impression that was a huge no-no. We flat out refuse to put any E-Stone outside.

[Stone Guys]

Hi All,

We are a large stone bench top manufacturer in Western Australia and we mainly use Caesarstone. We are having issues with the heat from the Australian sun causing the stone joins to open up. I am thinking that the heat is causing the stone to expand and contract under changing temperature which is popping the joins. When this occurs, we return to site and pull the tops apart, clean the joins and re-joining with Tenax. This usually does the trick but it's basically the same process as the original install.

Is anyone having the same issues with the joins opening from expansion due to heat? Any suggestions on preventing the joins from opening? What adhesives are you using to join your tops?

Thanks
[

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Aaron
National Technical Manager
Master Stonemason

Stone Guys.
stonetech@thestoneguys.com.au
www.thestoneguys.com.au

[Jamie.Mansel.AUS]

Thanks for the awesome feedback. Give me a few options to try on upcoming work.

Thanks again

[Jamie.Mansel.AUS]

Glue issues aside, quartz outside in the sun?
[

No we do not allow the reconstituted stone to be used in direct sunlight. The heat from the sun is coming through the kitchen windows. W

[Stone Guys]

Glue issues aside, quartz outside in the sun?
[

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You are correct quartz can not be used nor is it warrantied if used in an outside environment. Though quartz inside and with radiation exposure is fine.[/hidden]

[rev granite]

hi Jamie

you should try the glue Akemi in the can its a little bit stronger but still very easy to apply if you want you can also use integra glue this is very strong but its is hard to use and should only be used by your best installers as it is hard to refill any pit holes and if for any reason you need to replace the stone you will struggle to break the join apart

try not to put joins over the dish washers as they make a lot of heat and can cause joins to move
also we rough up all of our joins in the factory so the glue will stick better

make sure your installers clean the joins before they glue them with a solvent first like metho

[Dan R.]

PEOPLE!!!
Akemi is a name brand!
Tenax is a name brand!

NEITHER IS A TYPE OF GLUE!!! THEY ARE BRANDS OF GLUE!!!!

LEARN WHAT TYPES OF GLUE, NOT THE BRAND NAME!!

To give advice on using Tenax or Akemi, you are pissing in the wind and not giving any advice at all!!!
Polyester resin, arcylic, epoxy, vinylester, etc. Or any hybrid combination of the aforementioned are types of glue.

I use Tenax for exterior gives absolutely no information. It could be tenax poly (bad for outdoors) Or Tenax Domo (great for outdoors.

I don't care how long you have been in the industry, if you do not know your glues, then don't give crappy non information!!!!

Rant over.

[steven nenzel]

Without a shadow of a doubt, heat can cause a great deal of expansion and contraction in quartz. I know first hand as we applied heat to the quartz to speed up the process to remove a bow. When it cooled there was a 1/16" gap at the center of the seam. The ends will cool faster than the center. Hopefully when we go back tomorrow to reset the seam the gap is gone.

We have so many more issues with this crap than we ever had with natural stone.

[Stone Guys]

Without a shadow of a doubt, heat can cause a great deal of expansion and contraction in quartz. I know first hand as we applied heat to the quartz to speed up the process to remove a bow. When it cooled there was a 1/16" gap at the center of the seam. The ends will cool faster than the center. Hopefully when we go back tomorrow to reset the seam the gap is gone.

We have so many more issues with this crap than we ever had with natural stone.
[

What you have described will have a number of factors and heat from penetrating sunlight through an window or door will not have the same heat penetration or temperature as you are describing to heat the stone for removing a bow. Yes all material have thermal expansion and contraction , all stone no matter the stone will do this.

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[Tim the Artisan]

Looks like you have had plenty of suggestions to choose from and now I will add a few more.

Quarzo from Tenax is great for the field for a ready to use, color matched, knife grade polyester adhesive. If you are doing a lot of quartz, it's nice to have a color matched glue ready to use.

The other adhesive we use is the Tenax Multibond cartridge glue. Super strong, color matched, ready to use acrylic. This glue is STRONG! BUT, you have to be fast when setting seams/joins. Goes off in 5-8 minutes if the stone is room temperature. If we have seams to pull in front of windows in the summer( we are in Arizona) we will block off the window to keep the sun from hitting the stone and heating it. Additionally, we will cool the stone with water if it has been outside for any length of time.

Good luck!