A good read

[Dan R.]

http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/ar ... love_money

[Linus Modlich]

Nice to see an article that tells it like it is. Isn't it interesting that the kitchen dealers are specifying quartz in much higher numbers, despite it's drawbacks. Any guesses to their motivation?

[Dan R.]

The thing that shocked me was the percentages: 56% for granite and 13 % for Formica

[Eric R]

Nice find.

I don't believe that Formica is only 13% though. Probably 13% with KB dealers.

[Joe Little]

Nice article But I dont think they will ever get an accurate percentage of the overall market, considering there is no real system to track the remodel market, or even new homes for that matter. Just the K&B dealers, but at least they show stone at the most wanted

I would like to hear "Mile's percentage" of stone vs quatrz, I think that would be a good overall indicator of the market as far as usage.

[steven nenzel]

I thought granite would be closer to 60% of the market.

Good to see the gravel market is still a fraction of the real deal. With all the advertising they do it may give the impression they dominate the market.

[DavidL]

Nice to see an article that tells it like it is. Isn't it interesting that the kitchen dealers are specifying quartz in much higher numbers, despite it's drawbacks. Any guesses to their motivation?

Linus - For us, the designers who spec it are using it for its' consistency in color and predictable palette. We have 2 designers that we work for that both have there own sample kits of like 4 manufacturers. They pull out those little samples and use them like color swatches with fabrics and cabinets samples. I think for them it is just a matter of being easier. Both of these designers tend to do very contemporary designs.

[Kowboy]

As a former solid surface fabricator, I watched helplessly as the public's taste went for granite. Now I'm watching the public leave granite and head toward engineered stone.

To quote a friend, we are in the fashion industry; much closer to the New York runway models than construction. You can make all the practical arguments you want, as we in the solid surface business did, or you can cater to the fickle tastes of the public.

A hundred years ago buggy whip manufacturers were positive the stinky and unreliable automobile was a passing fad. You cannot fight the marketplace.

Joe

[steven nenzel]

Joe, the beautiful thing about granite is the variety of color & pattern. When people move towards more uniform color... we have it, when they want honed... we have it, when they want a splash of color on their island and Black Pearl leather on the rest... we have it, etc., etc., etc. Granite is not going to take a back seat to es any time soon.

Home decor magazines have loads of granite countertops with eased edge and yet we rarely have a consumer request them. Many k&b dealers push es and yet most consumers choose granite. What does that tell you. Soap stone is supposed to be "all the rage" and yet we have very little request for it. I'm open to different materials but show me how I can make money selling it. For me it requires a decent volume and a decent margin. Seems to me granite is the only one that fits our requirements as determined by the market place.

[Clyde Kingry]

As a former solid surface fabricator, I watched helplessly as the public's taste went for granite. Now I'm watching the public leave granite and head toward engineered stone.

I have noticed a very, very slight uptick in the engineered stones but hardly enough to suggest that the public taste is leaving granite. I think it just depends on the designer's taste and perhaps ability.

We just finished a new construction where we installed tops on every cabinet in the house. The designer chose Silestone or Cambria for every top except one room where she specified Black Absolute. With the consistency of those materials, I'd say she made "safe" choices which I think may reflect her inability to design well with exotic naturals. I got the impression they were simply out of her comfort zone as a design "expert".

Doesn't really matter to us, as we could have fabbed and installed Corian if they wanted it.

[Clyde Kingry]

Nice find.....I've yet to read a generic article like that didn't have at least one or more "myths" or simply incorrect information.

When it comes to natural stone, marble and limestone also offer aesthetic appeal but have their drawbacks. Marble, more porous than granite, is not as stain or heat resistant and scratches and chips easily. Limestone withstands heat very well, so scorch marks aren't a problem, but this soft, porous material is easily sliced, nicked, and scratched; it also stains easily, even when properly sealed.

It's just impossible to make general statements about natural materials like these that are totally accurate. The underlined statement just is not accurate but certainly applies in "some" cases and could be considered to be true in general (depending).....but overall, they did a nice job.

[Eric R]

Kowboy are you consistent? Yes!

Are you right in the head? No comment.

Just teasin'. I do disagree with your comments strongly though.

[Miles]

Let me give you some statistics just to show you that statistics don't always mean anything-

Two years ago ES made up about 2% of our business. Today it makes up about 5% of our business. You could therefore say that ES sales are up 150%. Our overall sales have doubled in that period of time. So, in theory, our ES sales are actually up 300%.

Or you could say that we used to do 20 kitchens a week and we used to do a ES kitchen about once every two weeks. Now we do 40 kitchens a week and we do two ES kitchens a week and 38 granite kitchens. That would hardly indicate that granite is a dieing fad.

Statistics don't always tell the story.

[Joe Little]

Thanks, Miles
I felt , at least for us in the south, your percentages might be more along the reality of the actual usage.

[Stonecuttter]

Miles IS a cornerstone of reality in this business. I always pay close attention.
I just hate like CRAP I couldn't afford to make the workshop. ...but there's always next year...
My boss has asked me how the shop stands, in order to be able to do quartz/gravel/ES/frozenmoosevomit. I told him all set, maybe a set of Gamma pads. Then once I started talking about the required "certifications", market strategies, anti-stone advertising, etc... I think it went to the back burner. Fine with me. We have plenty Natural Stone volume to keep us busy, and that's what I love, so groovy! If they ever decide to go ES, I reckon I'll do that too, to the same top-notch standards of fabrication. I agree, there's no fighting the marketplace.

[Kowboy]

Kowboy are you consistent? Yes!

Are you right in the head? No comment.

Just teasin'. I do disagree with your comments strongly though.

Eric:

You say you disagree, but you don't say how or why specifically. Please, fill us in.

Thanks,

Joe

[Todd B]

You Know

I really really struggle to understand why you Granite guys have a issue with ES moving ahead.

The fact is even with Miles stats that ES is on the up!!
Take this info and do something about it. Or dig your toes in because your sooo pasionate about natural stone.
Guys being pasionate does not pay the bills.....Making stone benchtops does and guess what ES is stone.

[Todd B]

A hundred years ago buggy whip manufacturers were positive the stinky and unreliable automobile was a passing fad. You cannot fight the marketplace.

Joe

Well mate theres alot of whip makers arent there

[Clyde Kingry]

You Know

I really really struggle to understand why you Granite guys have a issue with ES moving ahead.

The fact is even with Miles stats that ES is on the up!!
Take this info and do something about it. Or dig your toes in because your sooo pasionate about natural stone.
Guys being pasionate does not pay the bills.....Making stone benchtops does and guess what ES is stone.

The facts don't support ES is moving ahead, only that sales have increased. We fabricate all "brands" of ES as well as Corian so I don't see us having an issue. However, my viewpoint from the front lines is that granite is still much more popular than any other surface. I'll take a signed contract and deposit on any of them.

[Ken Lago]

Todd, we don't have any issue with es moving ahead, what I have an issue with is the lies and bad mouthing they do in order to get there.

[Mid Missouri Surfaces]

I don't see what all the fuss is about. The article says that ES was specified, doesn't mean they went with it. Our company does everything and anything except laminate. Being new to the stone world i haven't come across any bad mouthing of natural stone. To me rock is rock when it comes to durability, doesn't matter if it's natural or man made. To me the company with the most options for tops is going to be the one thats around the longest. For those of you if any that only like natural stone, i suggest opening your ears to the possibility of ES. If it's not a popular decision today, doesn't mean it won't be in the future. Maybe i'm looking at thise wrong, but today has allready been taken care of, and all my work day after day goes towards tomorrow.

[Todd B]

Ken are saying that all ES brands are out there lying and slamming Granite.

[coolhandchris]

I don't see what all the fuss is about. The article says that ES was specified, doesn't mean they went with it. Our company does everything and anything except laminate. Being new to the stone world i haven't come across any bad mouthing of natural stone. To me rock is rock when it comes to durability, doesn't matter if it's natural or man made.

Being new, I guess you weren't around for the radon hooplah. It was funded by a couple companies and there is still one that is actively slamming natural stone.

Also, rock is not rock when it comes to durability. ES scratches and burns more easily than most mercantile granites. Other rocks would include limestone, marble, slate and soapstone. They aren't going to be as durable as each other.

[Mid Missouri Surfaces]

Thanks for the clarification.

[Eric R]

Kowboy are you consistent? Yes!

Are you right in the head? No comment.

Just teasin'. I do disagree with your comments strongly though.

Eric:

You say you disagree, but you don't say how or why specifically. Please, fill us in.

Thanks,

Joe

Nope.
I leave the debates to the smart people and I'm not going to volunteer for that group.