cracked uba tuba piece

[t-mobile]

[GMD]

I am sure there is no margin in the job to replace, blanks are what, $20 a ft. installed or so. Just put some kind of glue in it and use the turtle wax idea, sounds good to me. It is what they paid for, and what should be expected. If they did any homework then they understood that the guy that wanted twice as much would have replaced it or repaired it flawlessly without them even knowing about it. The polish and seams would all be better and in better locations and so on and so fourth. At some point, unless you decieved them, they decided that money was the top priority. If they complain remind them why they chose the blanks in the first place and you didn't hear them complaining about saving all that money for the "same thing".

blanks or slab the job has to be done right, replace.
Nick i learned a lot from you and this site and i did not think that i would ever hear this from u.

[Kowboy]

I am sure there is no margin in the job to replace, blanks are what, $20 a ft. installed or so. Just put some kind of glue in it and use the turtle wax idea, sounds good to me. It is what they paid for, and what should be expected. If they did any homework then they understood that the guy that wanted twice as much would have replaced it or repaired it flawlessly without them even knowing about it. The polish and seams would all be better and in better locations and so on and so fourth. At some point, unless you decieved them, they decided that money was the top priority. If they complain remind them why they chose the blanks in the first place and you didn't hear them complaining about saving all that money for the "same thing".

blanks or slab the job has to be done right, replace.
Nick i learned a lot from you and this site and i did not think that i would ever hear this from u.

GMD:

If I may be so bold, I don't think you're getting what Nick is saying. Nick isn't saying to do crap work. He is saying that if this customer had purchased from him, it is doubtful the customer would even have knowledge of this repair, let alone having to worry about it. Nick is saying that if price was supreme for this customer and service and reputation secondary, this customer is getting exactly what they have paid for. There is no money for a replacement and there is no money for a proper repair. It' s glue and Turtle wax time.

I just ran into something similat on another site regarding a solid surface repair. I did the quick and cheapie because that fit the customer's budget. Is it the purtiest repair I've ever done? Not by a mile. Was it 80% for 20% of the money? Yep. Am I ashamed of the repair? Not in the least.

Joe

[carpenterznailum2003]

AMEN.....

[Nick]

Yes Kowboy, we are on the same page!!!!!!!! Trust me, I don't need to asuage my ego by knocking a guy doing blanks, what I meant was exactly as Kowboy said. Anyone ever get anything based on price???? I am redoing my bathroom now and I was looking at $250 cabinets to use for the his and hers. They were flat out crappy as all hell, but I was trying to work them in to a plan and very understanding that for $250 I had to be happy with the tradeoffs. That is all I meant, and Kowboy got it. Thanks Joe, you read it right.

Furthermore, "blanks or slabs the job has to be done right" is complete BS. That sounds great in la la land, but I can assure you that "right" has no definition, and if all jobs were equal, all companies would charge equal pricing and use equal care and materials. The fact is that all jobs are not equal and 2 different companies, even higher end ones mind you, always will yeild 2 different jobs. The better the companies, the smaller the gap, but this is custom work. Would it be fair to hire a guy doing blanks and take him to a $80/ft. custom job and say "it doesn't look like this, you sold me granite, I got crap, I am not paying you"? Because that is what it boils down to.

Funny coincidence. Friday, I am on an install. We have 2 banjo vanities for a custy who we also did their master bath, probably dropped 40-50K on the master. They want to spend just the minimum in 2 guests, no problem. I am $800 a vanity and not thrilled, but taking care of old clients with stuff from the yard and still more expensive than most here. Put in one, great. Put in the other, and the existing mirror at the bottom corner has the back come off or twing or something. It is dead smooth across the face, but the reflection is messed up. It is 1" X 1" in the bottom corner. I brainstom with my brother for 10 min, and get the client, explain that we did just do that, and open up with us replacing the 15 year old mirror as option #1 (that would kill the money on this job, but it's how we roll). She says twice, that is why we refer you and use you, thank you for telling me and letting me know about it, making the splash 1" taller and covering it will be fine(option #2). She could have probably got those vanities for $450 from someone down here, but when the chips are down, the more expensive and reliable company is expected to step up to the plate, no matter the size of the job. That goes her $3500 master bath undermount tubdeck when we did that, and her cheap lower margin remnant vanity in the guest bath all the same. Had she paid $450 from someone else, she would have deserved to live with a problem that would have taken here a few days after paying to realize was there. I really thought she wouldn't go for making the splash bigger and fully expected to replace an ancient mirror that ttweaked over nothing.

Different companies offer different values. The homeowner determines value, whether it is value of money or value of quality and piece of mind. Customers generally seek contractors that share their goals. Companies asking more $ should be accountable for more, companies selling blanks and asking less $ cannot be expected to have the same standards. Every job should be done right? Most jobs are done in the manner in which they are contracted, and that is what is right.

[Dan R.]

I am a little confused as the original poster stated that the material was 3 cm initially and then changed it to 2 cm blanks. I think Nick is spot on his assessment.

[Jeff H.]

Absolutely right on Nick!

[carpenterznailum2003]

The uba tuba job was 3cm most of our work is with prefab but we do slab work also.

[topshop]

2cm or 3cm should not matter - the job should be done right. When I used to install 2cm blanks I used to top polish all the seams - once I learned how. That was just the way I did business - provide your best install possible.

Now that I think about it maybe that is why I could not make money installing blanks and I wasn't charging much less than slab sq. ft. rates.

I think the "get what you pay" for scenario makes the whole industry look bad.

[Mark DeFusco]

We carry the Stoneweld Penetrating epoxy and it does dry water clear as long as you don't go heavy on the hardener. Even after using a pentrating to bond the crack you may still need to fill at the surface level with either poly or epoxy (colored to match) or CA.
Mark

[Nick]

I think the "get what you pay" for scenario makes the whole industry look bad.

Please tell me an industry that this rule does not apply to, with the exception of NASA I can't think of one where different companies do not fill the broad DEMAND for different priced products, offering different values targeting a specific market.

[Kowboy]

I think the "get what you pay" for scenario makes the whole industry look bad.

Please tell me an industry that this rule does not apply to, with the exception of NASA I can't think of one where different companies do not fill the broad DEMAND for different priced products, offering different values targeting a specific market.

Nick:

Again, if I may be so bold, I think what Dave means is that too often when there are ligitimate problems with jobs we are too quick to ask the customer if they went with low bidder. Low bidder and job problems often correlate, but correlation is not causation. Customers deserve good service from low bidders as well as others. When we blame customers for going with low bidder, it doesn't serve the industry well.

In the broader perspective, your point of having different companies to serve different markets is excellent.

Joe

[Dan R.]

The get what you pay for mantra makes every industry look bad. Uneducated, unskilled people in a craft trade certainly do not help the image at all either, IMO.

It is customary to learn before one enters a trade or profession. Think about doctors, lawyers, plumbers, master carpenters, sculptors, Nascar drivers, butchers, bakers, dress makers, etc.; in none of these (& thousands more) does anyone start at the top (offering luxury goods & services) without any true knowledge. All of these other professions require some sort of on the job training. I would venture to say that in this instance, that there has been very little training, only the attitude of "how hard can that be?" Well, it will get harder (more expensive) before it gets easier (more profitable). If one wants to take the risk with no formal training, then the consequences should not seem that extreme, imo.

Leave quality work to the well trained and qualified, in any instance.

[Mark DeFusco]

Well said Dan.
While a good carpenter never blames his hammer he doesn't use the cheapest hammer he can find either - he goes for the quality that will give him the service he relies upon.

Couldn't resist

[Mike Stites]

Wait did Nick and Kowboy agree on something? I can't even remember what the post was about.

[Nick]

He still took a shot at me

To defend that shot, I think it is safe to assume that if your primary business is using blanks, you are serving a market that needs to be more tolerant of issues like the one here. If you are one of the best in that market, you will try to make it look right and put some effort into it as this person is doing, but replacing it may not be what should be expected all things considering.

Dan, that is not a mantra, it is capitalism. Wal Mart is in business, and Saks Fith Avenue is in business. They both meet the demands of their clients.

[politefab]

i love these discussions. its like being on one of those merry go rounds at the amusement park where all the kids jump on and go around in circles. its always fun to watch..

nick is rite......and until you are in the business neck deep and see it for what it is than you cant understand entirely. that's why we have to forgive half assed intellect that is randomly thrown in by those who play pretend.

i have always said do your absolute best.. you have to set the bar. you have to be the one every one is trying to mimic. you have to take the road no one else wants to travel. don't worry what others are doing let your success speak for its self. and don't fake it till you make it

[Nick]

Is that like when Shaq said "don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk"?? It isn't circular, it is what it is. I just wish customers really had a full understanding of why one is more and one is less, then regardless of who they choose and why, it is the right choice for them

[steven nenzel]

Nick, the custy that pays next to nothing often has the same expectations of one that shops for quality. The funny thing is... they don't expect bmw performance from their kia.

[topshop]

Some times its the bargain hunters that want a bigger bargain and think if they complain enough they will get it for free - Walmart/Home Depot-itis, bottom line buyers. Just do yourself a favor and drive them away to begin with. If they come out of the box looking for the bargain price it will only get worse later.

I have sold a few higher priced repair jobs by reminding home owners they do not to take their Mercedes to Jiffylube for service.

[Nick]

Nick, the custy that pays next to nothing often has the same expectations of one that shops for quality. The funny thing is... they don't expect bmw performance from their kia.

I know Steven, trust me. That is why I have chosen a high end niche. If someone is going to own from 7-4, they might as well own you at a number your happy with so you can service them extensively with a smile because they are not costing you money to do it. People are still amazed when they are undecieded on side splashes or things like that and I say "why don't we just make them, we will hold them up after install and if you don't like it we will just throw them out, no big deal." Plus, picky people with money are always home. This is really convienent when scheduling templates and installs

[Joe Little]

You do have to schedule around tennis and golf, and bridge if they are older

[Nick]

"if they are older"

My average client age has to be 58. It is more lunch plans than anything else

[Stonecuttter]

I HAD lunch plans today... but then discovered that the Abaco clamp had knocked a surface-profile chip out of a penninsula that gets installed on Monday. So much for lunch.
....then again, I'm not that old.