Titan Cones Rusting after 3 months???

[glparrish078]

I have a customer with a 3 yr old Park Titan (1016). He has a WTT filter system and for some reason the cones, bits, and his Titan are rusting like crazy!

From talking to him, he says he test the water going into (Tap water) and the pH is normal. When it goes through his filter system, the pH goes through the roof!

What it is causing is for his water to have a slimy consistency, rusting his CNC SUPER FAST!!

When I noticed his CNC in his shop, I asked him if he ever thought about buying new bits, because his had to be really old due to the amount of rust. He told me some of his bits and cones were only 3 months old!

He has a settling pit that is lined with metal, not concrete. Could this cause the water to be very corrosive?

Every day after the shop guys finish, he has a guy wipe all the cones down with denatured alcohol, which is similar to what Park does.

He has a 1500 gallon plastic tower tank, settling pool pit (made of metal, not concrete), WTT filter press, and all pvc lines.

Any thoughts?
Any help?

[Carmine Pantano]

We have a similar situation with our filtration System. Except our PH tests (and all other tests) come out perfect. My only thought is the pump that recirculates the water back in the storage tank when shop is not in need of water. This pipe empties into the tank from up high and SPLASHES into the tank creating EXTRA oxygen. We think this oxygenates the water to the point of inhibiting rust faster. We are changing our pipe to release further down in the tank so there is no more SPLASH. Problem is it's probably too late to ever figure out if that's the problem.

[dustinbraudway]

I built my fathers water treatment system and I bet the PH is thru the roof. He doesn't have rusting issues other than Thinwall core bits.

One good reason why there is no rust issues, is that the operator does his daily maintenance and procedure. Wipe the dang cones down with WD40 every morning. DA won't do a thing for you other then get grime off them. It isn't a lubricant.

After he actually uses lubricant tell him to call WTT as it sounds like there might be a problem with the filter.

[Marmi Natural Stone]

Slimy water sounds like too much flocculant in the system.

[scott m]

Does he add chlorine to the system?....that will rust steel like crazy....also the lime in the stones especially ES will rust it like hell.....Not sure why the PH gets out of wack after it goes through the filter, but you can add calcium carbonate to bring it back......

[Mark Meriaux]

From talking to him, he says he test the water going into (Tap water) and the pH is normal. When it goes through his filter system, the pH goes through the roof!

What it is causing is for his water to have a slimy consistency, rusting his CNC SUPER FAST!!

Can you be more specific than "through the roof"??
Slimy could be due to a couple of factors:
1) could be microbial growth - add chlorine or bromine to the water
2) could be basic (high pH number), which could could occur from calcium sediment in the filters.
He could add acid to the system to balance the pH (go to a pool supply store).
He could add chlorine or bromine to kill any bacteria.

Lastly, I would agree with Dustin......WD-40 will lubricate and protect the cones against water/corrosion. DA will remove any petroleum residue (leaving the metal unprotected against corrosion).

[John Fallon]

Good morning,

All good suggestions, but the best thing to do is for the shop to call WTT as Dustin suggests. 603-758-1900 and Bob is waiting for the call. He will troubleshoot over the phone. It could be a number of things but Bob will get them back on track.

John Fallon
Water Treatment Technologies
914-441-1306

[John Fallon]

Gentlemen,

I tracked the customer down and we are troubleshooting it now. He has not called in for service for quite a while and has a number of issues that need to be adressed. We cannot help if folks do not call in. We do make random calls to check in but with over 500+ systems installed it is not easy to find each issue. here are some thoughts if you are interested...

Closed-loop zero discharge systems require that pH and bacteria remain under control, generally through manually intervention. Depending on maintenance, the water being recirculated can accumulate high levels of bacteria, beyond the ability of the U/V to control it (assuming the model used includes one) due to the nature of certain organic wastes that are present in a shop – if you would like a more graphic explanation please call me. Our system removes only suspended solids, nothing that is dissolved or emulsified in the water. So as you process stone and circulate water through the shop you will certainly pick up contaminants that will effect pH and potentially the oxidation (rusting) process. You should view the water in your storage tank (assuming it is clear, and it must be clear if the system is being properly maintained) like a pool, testing and treating it in a similar way. Your local pool supplier can provide pH and chlorine test strips, as well as the chemistry to adjust pH. Shocking the water in the system to kill bacteria (using simple household Clorox bleach), just as you must in a pool from time to time, should be conducted periodically. The slime you mention is bacteria, and it may also be necessary to maintain a certain chlorine level in your water at all times by incorporating the usual chlorine “hockey pucks” that are available also at your local pool supplier. The presence of chlorine by itself will not create rusting (your city water is treated in a similar manner), it is the imbalance of other constituents in your water that creates the oxidation problem. Please feel free to call our office at 603-758-1900 and ask for Bob our customer service manager, he can help you get through these challenges.

Splashing water onto the surface in a stored tank does not increase the effects of oxidation, and I said above the system only removes suspended particulate. Our systems do not add anything to the water that is not already present in what is being recirculated – the filter cloths do not add anything to the water as it passes through them. Someone else mentioned a flocculant being the cause, but if they are using our system as designed there are no flocculants present. There are many things that effect pH and the oxidation process, but in general if you actually treat your clear water (and it must be clear at all times) like a pool, balancing the chemistry just like you would in a pool, you should arrest the oxidation process. Be very careful about using any chemistry in your process (including any cleaning) that could affect pH or accelerate the accumulation of unwanted dissolved contaminants. Do not dump mop buckets with soaps into the trenches or pit, do not allow oil or antifreeze from your trucks to enter the trenches or pit, quickly remove any hydraulic fluid that leaks from equipment that will eventually find its way into the pit. Again if our customers are having problems with the system PLEASE call us, there is no charge for talking with us about ANY issue. If someone has purchased one of our systems used and not directly from WTT, we would still welcome the call, hoping to gain your confidence and resolve the problem – welcoming you to our family.


John Fallon
For The Water Treatment Technologies Team

[DavidL]

Excellent response.

BTW - We have iron stains - not rusting on our machine. And on our building. This is due to our local water supply. We treated checmically fro the first year we were in the building. We noticed over time that the chemicals did work but were expensive. Also after about 2 years our water cleared up. Your customer may be in a lcoation with a high iron content in the water and rather than seeing what they perceive to be rust it may be staining instead. My CNC was white when we bought it. The aluminum table was silver/aluminum color. Now it blings with the gold hue of iron in the water

[glparrish078]

John,
Thanks for taking the time out of your day to call me and get my customers info to help. I was a little apprehensive about giving you his phone number/name, but knew you had good intentions and wanted to help!

Funny thing is this customer doesnt buy hardly any of his slabs from me, but anytime I can help someone with a problem, I will. I hate to see customers (no matter how big or small) have problems with their investment!

I always give credit where it is due, and promote the SFA!

If your going to be at the workshop in STL, I owe you a beer or two!